Yet another battery thread...

[redunculous]

So I returned from a 21 day trip away to find the breaker on my dock pedestal is completely buggered - until they pull it out I can only guess the inside is corroded away as when you toggle it there is no resistance and no power to my boat nor has there been for quite some time.

So of course my 4 x Trojan 105's are fried and at .4v at worst and 1.5 at best

I don't see them coming back alive after a check of them today so I have 2 questions

1. Firstly to stop this happening again what do people suggest? Is there a cheap low voltage alarm that anyone knows of that I can wire in so at least the dockmaster on his rounds can hear it? Or perhaps a cheap system that shuts off the ability for power to be drawn from them when they hit a certain level?

2. Secondly should I replace with the same (I found they discharged pretty fast when on the hook I must confess) or should I scrape a few pennies and go with something else? My charger on board can handle all types.

Thanks in advance and apologies for the battery thread

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

There are such devices, the one below is just one example. Obviously, it goes on the 12V side rather than the 120V side but for more money, you can find similar devices. Check ratings as this one handles around 40 amps at 12V.

It will prevent over-voltage as well as serve to cut off the batteries if they fall below 11V. Audible alarm isn't loud enough to be heard at any distance though.


http://www.powerwerx.com/fuses-circuit-protection/pwrguard-protects-the-radio.html


the only way to be certain if the batteries are 'toast' is to recharge, check the sp.g. and have them load tested.

 

[JohnShannon]

Small solar panel, 10-20W should prevent this kind of breaker tripped/ someone unplugged me kind of disaster. Won't charge the battery in any reasonable time but can hold charge provided your loads are low.

 

[Ron20324]

Are you saying you were away, on the boat, for 21 days... or away FROM the boat for 21??? Actually, in either case, I'd wonder why they drained.

 

[Stu Jackson]

1. Did you have your fridge plugged in while you were away for 21 days? (I agree with Ron, which was it, but either way, too...)

2. Trojans are very good batteries, you can find less expensive deals by searching on this forum.

 

[redunculous]

Away from the boat for 21 days

Fridge and freezer were on unfortunately due to a relative using it infrequently and not switching them off.

Solar panels were literally being discussed and picked last week for installation this week (typical)

Guess I will replace the 105's - thanks for the tip Stu and thank you all for responses, Don am going to check out that system!

On a side note, can anyone recommend some AGM's for my 90amp sucking main sail winch? I would like to take it off the house bank and I want to pop a couple under my bed where I have the space for them so definitely sealed.

Thanks again

 

[Rick D]

Why?

"On a side note, can anyone recommend some AGM's for my 90amp sucking main sail winch? I would like to take it off the house bank and I want to pop a couple under my bed where I have the space for them so definitely sealed."
I don't understand the motivation. The draw is large but infrequent and short duration, relatively speaking.

 

[Stu Jackson]

On a side note, can anyone recommend some AGM's for my 90amp sucking main sail winch? I would like to take it off the house bank and I want to pop a couple under my bed where I have the space for them so definitely sealed.

Rick's right. If you're gonna add lead, then add it to the house bank. Separate banks for certain uses makes little sense to both the life of the batteries and for unnecessary added complexity in switching & wiring.

You also do NOT need AGMs. They have their own issues, which are not necessarily good for recreational boaters:

AGM Battery Issues (from Maine Sail)
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=124973

AGM Battery Issues and the Blue Seas Dual Circuit Switch (from Maine Sail) "DARN AGM Batteries"
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=848465&highlight=darn agm

 

[JamesG161]

I had almost the same problem, except my Inverter/charger (IC) has a "dead battery" shutdown at 10.5 VDC. I almost panicked at loosing my new 600Ah (wet cell) batteries.

My panicked brain thought I had lost even the $2400 IC since it also was unresponsive. I checked each battery and they showed right at 10VDC. Not even a reset would revive my IC. I then guessed what happened.

I isolated one bank and put on a portable 12VDC jump starter for about 10 minutes to bleed-to-charge, not jump, the "dead battery". Once the voltage was greater than 10.5 the IC "woke up" and began to charge again. WHEW!!

I used the jump start, in the battery charging mode" since I now had 120VAC from Inverter to charge up the 2nd bank. Double WHEW!!!

After an overnight dual charge, I verified, no damage with a nice sea trial sail.

Moral...
Get a good IC to protect you batteries!

Charge up and be ready to cruise....
Jim...

PS: I use wet cell only. Cheaper, more forgiving and last longer.

 

[redunculous]

I can possibly find a little extra space to add to the bank (I 'had' 4x 105's wired for 12v and don't have a great deal of spare space for 4 more in the cockpit) but wanted sealed due to storing them under my bed.

What do people with a similar size boat nd electric winches have for theirs?

Thanks for the comments regarding the separate bank - I figured why not as my charger can charge 3 banks so I might as well separate that heavy load but comments are duly noted and taken on board.

James - what model is the IC and how do you have it wired?

On the plus side found a T105 supplier here in West Palm Beach doing T105 for 111.50 + tax with a core exchange.

Thanks once again for all replies

 

[JamesG161]

wanted sealed due to storing them under my bed.

That is excellent reason for sealed!
Hunter's design puts them in an isolated bilge and in well vented cabin space, below floor.

James - what model is the IC and how do you have it wired?

A 1999 vintage Freedom 2000 (meaning 2000 watts of continue 120VAC inverting capacity)
http://xantrex.com
Is the manufacturer of the IC Freedom modern series.

I have A/C that must draw from shore power or genset and doesn't use the inverted 120VAC.
The IC is wired to charge House batteries that run all 12VDC and a few inverted 120VAC circuit outlets, refrig and seldom used Microwave oven.

At first i didn't like the fact that my engine alternator could NOT charge the house batteries and the house batteries could only be charged by the genset using the IC, when away from shore.:cussing: Then i realized the microprocessor of the IC, controlled the ideal "Charging curve" for deep cycle batteries versus an engine/genset high amp starter battery (crude alternator voltage regulator). Thus adding to the longevity of the expensive deep cycle batteries.

So the engine/genset common starter batteries and the house batteries have no switch to connect them.

Guess what is wired to the starter battery?
Winch, windlass and main bilge pumps.

Why?
All except the bilge pump is a HIGH amp pull in short bursts. Why the Bilge too?

On my boat Hunter added a 5W solar panel to maintain the charge on the starter battery and thus the Bilge pump would always have a fresh battery.

Some older and smaller Hunter boats did cross over batteries, but no more.

I liked the fact that my IC saved my deep cycle batteries before the refrig suck them dry.

Wishing you long battery life....

PS: I have a set of jumper cables just in case in need a desperation alternator charge.:dance:

 

[Rick D]

Battery Bank

I have four 105's. They do just fine with a power winch wired to them. The inverter/charger is 2500 watts/150 amps. The batteies last me four years. I bang them pretty good when doing overnighters or on my island mooring. I have solar; 266 watts (new). I also have a Honda 2000. When I am on my mooring for the duration, I charge to 80% and drop to 50%. When I am doing a night or two sailing, I run the engine an hour at night and in the morning (Balmar 90 amp). (No solar when sailing.) When in the slip, she stays on the charger full time. Sooooo, I don't fully understand the problem you wish to remedy. Remember adding more storage is fine for the first draw-down, but then you have to pump it all back in again. Don't drag a lot of battery lead around unless your style of sailing makes it worth while.

 

[redunculous]

"On a side note, can anyone recommend some AGM's for my 90amp sucking main sail winch? I would like to take it off the house bank and I want to pop a couple under my bed where I have the space for them so definitely sealed."
I don't understand the motivation. The draw is large but infrequent and short duration, relatively speaking.

motivation = naivete

Thanks for the info, idea scrapped

 

[Gunni]

With an AGM bank you will likely be able to shoe-horn more Amp-hours into the same battery compartment. A lifeline 31XT AGM will give you 125 Ah each in roughly the same foot print as those golf carts batts - total of 500 Ah. Need to make sure you have a truly smart charger, and don't mix FLA and AGM batteries.

 

[woodster]

With an AGM bank you will likely be able to shoe-horn more Amp-hours into the same battery compartment. A lifeline 31XT AGM will give you 125 Ah each in roughly the same foot print as those golf carts batts - total of 500 Ah. Need to make sure you have a truly smart charger, and don't mix FLA and AGM batteries.

that's all well and good but $1400.00 /500 amp bank is a bit much for a battery bank one would think opposed to $900.00 for a 675 amp bank in golf car batteries

 

[Gunni]

He isn't going to get 4 golf-cart batts in his battery compartment to deliver 675 Ah. Ever. And I know that extra 100Ah from an AGM set will be very re-assuring on a long night crossing to the Bahama Bank and beyond.

 

[Maine Sail]

He isn't going to get 4 golf-cart batts in his battery compartment to deliver 675 Ah. Ever. And I know that extra 100Ah from an AGM set will be very re-assuring on a long night crossing to the Bahama Bank and beyond.

There are many different golf cart batteries ranging from a low of about 210Ah's to as high as 280 Ah +/-. I did a bank of 4 of the US 250HC XC 2's last year for customer who wanted a bit more capacity. It was a 560 Ah bank and it cost $660.00... They fit right where his old 450Ah T-105 bank had previously been...

There's also the US Battery DCXC-31 a 130Ah group 31 battery

There's also the Trojan SCS-225 a 130Ah group 31 battery

There's also the Trojan T125 a 240Ah 6V GC2

There's also the Trojan T145 a 260Ah 6V GC battery

If it were my money and I was considering AGM batteries for my own boat, The Carbon Foam Firefly Oasis would be my choice.

 

[woodster]

that's all well and good but $1400.00 /500 amp bank is a bit much for a battery bank one would think opposed to $900.00 for a 675 amp bank in golf car batteries

let me clarify this some the 675 amp bank was for 6 ...225 amp golf car batteries if he can only get 4 in there then he would have 450 amps in the bank at a cost of $600.00 so that would leave $800.00 for the balmar regulator and what ever alt he might choose..... i use AGM's because i can get them for peanuts other wise i would use golf car batteries or bite the bullet and get the fire fly that Maine has post about ...i like the agm's because they are trouble free of watering needs and they emit less gas in the locker

 

[Mark Maulden]

I have some peanuts....

 

[redunculous]

I put 105's back in as I got them for 105$ each with core exchange and couldn't refuse that price. As it was pointed out earlier - its enough power for my needs.

This thread grew some legs!