I have read in various places, including on this forum, and have recently been told by someone who makes a living in the boating industry, that ~10% of the original cost of a boat is the expected annual maintainence (and upgrades) cost. This can be even higher for older used boats. Now, for a $200-300k boat (new replacement cost), that's $20-30k (OR MORE), every year, year after year. As the saying goes, boats may very well be a hole in the water into which money is thrown, but that's a really deep hole. How many of you actually spend that much, every single year, when you add it up? Even if you paid someone else to do everything, including keeping it in bristol condition, that's a pretty big budget. I must be missing something.
Yearly costs
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I have read in various places, including on this forum, and have recently been told by someone who makes a living in the boating industry, that ~10% of the original cost of a boat is the expected annual maintainence (and upgrades) cost. This can be even higher for older used boats. Now, for a $200-300k boat (new replacement cost), that's $20-30k (OR MORE), every year, year after year. As the saying goes, boats may very well be a hole in the water into which money is thrown, but that's a really deep hole. How many of you actually spend that much, every single year, when you add it up? Even if you paid someone else to do everything, including keeping it in bristol condition, that's a pretty big budget. I must be missing something.
The number may be close if you factor in
Dockage, insurance, fuel, running rigging, all labor including engine service, interior and exterior detailing, consumable stores for entertaining and transportation to and from the boat.
Dockage, insurance, fuel, running rigging, all labor including engine service, interior and exterior detailing, consumable stores for entertaining and transportation to and from the boat.
The number may be close if you factor in
Dockage, insurance, fuel, running rigging, all labor including engine service, interior and exterior detailing, consumable stores for entertaining and transportation to and from the boat.
Dockage, insurance, fuel, running rigging, all labor including engine service, interior and exterior detailing, consumable stores for entertaining and transportation to and from the boat.
Depends
If you buy a new boat and outfit it extensively, you won't be anywhere near that percentage. But, as the boat approaches ten years, you wind up with new canvas, maybe new sails, some electronic upgrades, maybe rigging, depending on where you keep her, etc. Also, is moorage / dockage included? If so, I am pretty sure the 10% number is right for me; about 5% if excluded. RD
If you buy a new boat and outfit it extensively, you won't be anywhere near that percentage. But, as the boat approaches ten years, you wind up with new canvas, maybe new sails, some electronic upgrades, maybe rigging, depending on where you keep her, etc. Also, is moorage / dockage included? If so, I am pretty sure the 10% number is right for me; about 5% if excluded. RD
Depends
If you buy a new boat and outfit it extensively, you won't be anywhere near that percentage. But, as the boat approaches ten years, you wind up with new canvas, maybe new sails, some electronic upgrades, maybe rigging, depending on where you keep her, etc. Also, is moorage / dockage included? If so, I am pretty sure the 10% number is right for me; about 5% if excluded. RD
If you buy a new boat and outfit it extensively, you won't be anywhere near that percentage. But, as the boat approaches ten years, you wind up with new canvas, maybe new sails, some electronic upgrades, maybe rigging, depending on where you keep her, etc. Also, is moorage / dockage included? If so, I am pretty sure the 10% number is right for me; about 5% if excluded. RD
easily 5-10%
unless you keep it on a trailer or mooring, the dockage (depending on where will easily cost) a few thousand dollars per year or more. One sail replacement and you double that annual cost. Depending on location, winter storage can easily cost $1000 or more. Add insurance, maintenance, routine electronics or parts replacement and you get the idea. Plan to do any cruising and it can start to add up to some real money. If you tend to view sailing in terms of what it can cost you, take up golf!
unless you keep it on a trailer or mooring, the dockage (depending on where will easily cost) a few thousand dollars per year or more. One sail replacement and you double that annual cost. Depending on location, winter storage can easily cost $1000 or more. Add insurance, maintenance, routine electronics or parts replacement and you get the idea. Plan to do any cruising and it can start to add up to some real money. If you tend to view sailing in terms of what it can cost you, take up golf!
easily 5-10%
unless you keep it on a trailer or mooring, the dockage (depending on where will easily cost) a few thousand dollars per year or more. One sail replacement and you double that annual cost. Depending on location, winter storage can easily cost $1000 or more. Add insurance, maintenance, routine electronics or parts replacement and you get the idea. Plan to do any cruising and it can start to add up to some real money. If you tend to view sailing in terms of what it can cost you, take up golf!
unless you keep it on a trailer or mooring, the dockage (depending on where will easily cost) a few thousand dollars per year or more. One sail replacement and you double that annual cost. Depending on location, winter storage can easily cost $1000 or more. Add insurance, maintenance, routine electronics or parts replacement and you get the idea. Plan to do any cruising and it can start to add up to some real money. If you tend to view sailing in terms of what it can cost you, take up golf!
Storage is separate
Insurance and storage (winter&summer) are not maintainence costs. Neither are fuel and other consumables. Canvas and sails are not yearly expenses for most people, but rather are spread out over several years. Maybe the 10% number is meant to take those types of costs into account. Another way to think about it, if you look around the boats near you, would you guess that 10% of the new cost is spent every year on maintainence/upgrade items only, for any significant percentage of those boats? Would you also say that those boats are not properly maintained (other than in the trivial sense that many feel most boats are not properly maintained in one aspect or another).
Insurance and storage (winter&summer) are not maintainence costs. Neither are fuel and other consumables. Canvas and sails are not yearly expenses for most people, but rather are spread out over several years. Maybe the 10% number is meant to take those types of costs into account. Another way to think about it, if you look around the boats near you, would you guess that 10% of the new cost is spent every year on maintainence/upgrade items only, for any significant percentage of those boats? Would you also say that those boats are not properly maintained (other than in the trivial sense that many feel most boats are not properly maintained in one aspect or another).
Storage is separate
Insurance and storage (winter&summer) are not maintainence costs. Neither are fuel and other consumables. Canvas and sails are not yearly expenses for most people, but rather are spread out over several years. Maybe the 10% number is meant to take those types of costs into account. Another way to think about it, if you look around the boats near you, would you guess that 10% of the new cost is spent every year on maintainence/upgrade items only, for any significant percentage of those boats? Would you also say that those boats are not properly maintained (other than in the trivial sense that many feel most boats are not properly maintained in one aspect or another).
Insurance and storage (winter&summer) are not maintainence costs. Neither are fuel and other consumables. Canvas and sails are not yearly expenses for most people, but rather are spread out over several years. Maybe the 10% number is meant to take those types of costs into account. Another way to think about it, if you look around the boats near you, would you guess that 10% of the new cost is spent every year on maintainence/upgrade items only, for any significant percentage of those boats? Would you also say that those boats are not properly maintained (other than in the trivial sense that many feel most boats are not properly maintained in one aspect or another).
My Experience is...
In my $2K to $5K boats, the cost was more like 15-20% per year. In my $15K to $40K boats, the costs were about 10%. All of the above is on used boats in the 18 to 30 year old range. These costs are for maintenance, repairs and upgrades and not for slip fees and incidentals. In my case, the cheaper the boat, the higher the annaul % costs. This makes sense if you consider a used boat that you payed $5K for and bought a GPS for $1K. Thats already 20%. Conversely, it makes sense that the more expensive the boat, the less the annual percentage will be. Tony B
In my $2K to $5K boats, the cost was more like 15-20% per year. In my $15K to $40K boats, the costs were about 10%. All of the above is on used boats in the 18 to 30 year old range. These costs are for maintenance, repairs and upgrades and not for slip fees and incidentals. In my case, the cheaper the boat, the higher the annaul % costs. This makes sense if you consider a used boat that you payed $5K for and bought a GPS for $1K. Thats already 20%. Conversely, it makes sense that the more expensive the boat, the less the annual percentage will be. Tony B
My Experience is...
In my $2K to $5K boats, the cost was more like 15-20% per year. In my $15K to $40K boats, the costs were about 10%. All of the above is on used boats in the 18 to 30 year old range. These costs are for maintenance, repairs and upgrades and not for slip fees and incidentals. In my case, the cheaper the boat, the higher the annaul % costs. This makes sense if you consider a used boat that you payed $5K for and bought a GPS for $1K. Thats already 20%. Conversely, it makes sense that the more expensive the boat, the less the annual percentage will be. Tony B
In my $2K to $5K boats, the cost was more like 15-20% per year. In my $15K to $40K boats, the costs were about 10%. All of the above is on used boats in the 18 to 30 year old range. These costs are for maintenance, repairs and upgrades and not for slip fees and incidentals. In my case, the cheaper the boat, the higher the annaul % costs. This makes sense if you consider a used boat that you payed $5K for and bought a GPS for $1K. Thats already 20%. Conversely, it makes sense that the more expensive the boat, the less the annual percentage will be. Tony B
New cost
Tony B, It seems like you're figuring the percentage of what you paid, not the new, replacement cost for those boats. A boat costing $15-40k used could very well cost $200k new today, depending on make, model and age. If I read you correctly, you spend $1500-4000 per year on maintainence and upgrades. That's not anywhere close to 10% of the new cost and I'm guessing your boat is well maintained.
Tony B, It seems like you're figuring the percentage of what you paid, not the new, replacement cost for those boats. A boat costing $15-40k used could very well cost $200k new today, depending on make, model and age. If I read you correctly, you spend $1500-4000 per year on maintainence and upgrades. That's not anywhere close to 10% of the new cost and I'm guessing your boat is well maintained.
New cost
Tony B, It seems like you're figuring the percentage of what you paid, not the new, replacement cost for those boats. A boat costing $15-40k used could very well cost $200k new today, depending on make, model and age. If I read you correctly, you spend $1500-4000 per year on maintainence and upgrades. That's not anywhere close to 10% of the new cost and I'm guessing your boat is well maintained.
Tony B, It seems like you're figuring the percentage of what you paid, not the new, replacement cost for those boats. A boat costing $15-40k used could very well cost $200k new today, depending on make, model and age. If I read you correctly, you spend $1500-4000 per year on maintainence and upgrades. That's not anywhere close to 10% of the new cost and I'm guessing your boat is well maintained.
NOT !!
While yes there will be some very costly years. The ones that the engine takes a dive, or the standing rigging has to be replaced. But for the most part it will be far less then that,"If" you keep up on regular maintance and havent bought a "project boat" *Note* just because it looks pretty at first inspection dosent mean it's not a project boat! for the kind of money your talking you will want 3 surveys done. 1) Rigging 2) Hull 3) Mechanical If you want to add the extras, ie: bow thruster, new electronics through out, or have an accedent, like hit a dock, hard grounding then you could go over that figure. But thats what insurance is for right. There comes a point in many boats lives that a mager refit is called for. This can cost a LOT!! Maybe as high as 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of replacement for a like used boat. ( Also remember that this is baced on Yard labor" if you can do it your self it's way less . I however have a theroy about these boats in that regular maintance, replacement and or upgrades were not preformed as needed, but the owners wait untill systems start failing then patch or cobbel it togather then wait for the next crises. Sort of a "ride it hard put it away wet" mentality. There is another type of owner . The rich one. That does spend a lot of money yearly to have OTHERS do everything for him and or refitt his boat often just because he can. He will spend at least that amount. But if your here asking I doubt your in that catagory. I have a 41' I spent about 4000.00 last year. 1500.00 absolutly needed 2500.00 upgrades that could have been streched out. Will there be a time it cost's more? certinly as mentioned above. Standing rigging, running rigging ,Sails, refrideration ect. all wear out but so does your house roof, septic system, concrete driveway ect. just not every year. Bottom line... "You dont make your money when you sell you make your money when you buy" So buy wisely
While yes there will be some very costly years. The ones that the engine takes a dive, or the standing rigging has to be replaced. But for the most part it will be far less then that,"If" you keep up on regular maintance and havent bought a "project boat" *Note* just because it looks pretty at first inspection dosent mean it's not a project boat! for the kind of money your talking you will want 3 surveys done. 1) Rigging 2) Hull 3) Mechanical If you want to add the extras, ie: bow thruster, new electronics through out, or have an accedent, like hit a dock, hard grounding then you could go over that figure. But thats what insurance is for right. There comes a point in many boats lives that a mager refit is called for. This can cost a LOT!! Maybe as high as 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of replacement for a like used boat. ( Also remember that this is baced on Yard labor" if you can do it your self it's way less . I however have a theroy about these boats in that regular maintance, replacement and or upgrades were not preformed as needed, but the owners wait untill systems start failing then patch or cobbel it togather then wait for the next crises. Sort of a "ride it hard put it away wet" mentality. There is another type of owner . The rich one. That does spend a lot of money yearly to have OTHERS do everything for him and or refitt his boat often just because he can. He will spend at least that amount. But if your here asking I doubt your in that catagory. I have a 41' I spent about 4000.00 last year. 1500.00 absolutly needed 2500.00 upgrades that could have been streched out. Will there be a time it cost's more? certinly as mentioned above. Standing rigging, running rigging ,Sails, refrideration ect. all wear out but so does your house roof, septic system, concrete driveway ect. just not every year. Bottom line... "You dont make your money when you sell you make your money when you buy" So buy wisely
NOT !!
While yes there will be some very costly years. The ones that the engine takes a dive, or the standing rigging has to be replaced. But for the most part it will be far less then that,"If" you keep up on regular maintance and havent bought a "project boat" *Note* just because it looks pretty at first inspection dosent mean it's not a project boat! for the kind of money your talking you will want 3 surveys done. 1) Rigging 2) Hull 3) Mechanical If you want to add the extras, ie: bow thruster, new electronics through out, or have an accedent, like hit a dock, hard grounding then you could go over that figure. But thats what insurance is for right. There comes a point in many boats lives that a mager refit is called for. This can cost a LOT!! Maybe as high as 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of replacement for a like used boat. ( Also remember that this is baced on Yard labor" if you can do it your self it's way less . I however have a theroy about these boats in that regular maintance, replacement and or upgrades were not preformed as needed, but the owners wait untill systems start failing then patch or cobbel it togather then wait for the next crises. Sort of a "ride it hard put it away wet" mentality. There is another type of owner . The rich one. That does spend a lot of money yearly to have OTHERS do everything for him and or refitt his boat often just because he can. He will spend at least that amount. But if your here asking I doubt your in that catagory. I have a 41' I spent about 4000.00 last year. 1500.00 absolutly needed 2500.00 upgrades that could have been streched out. Will there be a time it cost's more? certinly as mentioned above. Standing rigging, running rigging ,Sails, refrideration ect. all wear out but so does your house roof, septic system, concrete driveway ect. just not every year. Bottom line... "You dont make your money when you sell you make your money when you buy" So buy wisely
While yes there will be some very costly years. The ones that the engine takes a dive, or the standing rigging has to be replaced. But for the most part it will be far less then that,"If" you keep up on regular maintance and havent bought a "project boat" *Note* just because it looks pretty at first inspection dosent mean it's not a project boat! for the kind of money your talking you will want 3 surveys done. 1) Rigging 2) Hull 3) Mechanical If you want to add the extras, ie: bow thruster, new electronics through out, or have an accedent, like hit a dock, hard grounding then you could go over that figure. But thats what insurance is for right. There comes a point in many boats lives that a mager refit is called for. This can cost a LOT!! Maybe as high as 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of replacement for a like used boat. ( Also remember that this is baced on Yard labor" if you can do it your self it's way less . I however have a theroy about these boats in that regular maintance, replacement and or upgrades were not preformed as needed, but the owners wait untill systems start failing then patch or cobbel it togather then wait for the next crises. Sort of a "ride it hard put it away wet" mentality. There is another type of owner . The rich one. That does spend a lot of money yearly to have OTHERS do everything for him and or refitt his boat often just because he can. He will spend at least that amount. But if your here asking I doubt your in that catagory. I have a 41' I spent about 4000.00 last year. 1500.00 absolutly needed 2500.00 upgrades that could have been streched out. Will there be a time it cost's more? certinly as mentioned above. Standing rigging, running rigging ,Sails, refrideration ect. all wear out but so does your house roof, septic system, concrete driveway ect. just not every year. Bottom line... "You dont make your money when you sell you make your money when you buy" So buy wisely
Most of the purely maintenance costs if you remove
dockage, insurance, fuel from the equation would have to be for engine service, interior and exterior cleaning polishing and painting. There are very few items that have only a one year service life. Running riging, sails, canvas, life jackets, dinghys, electronics, all have a lifetime cost that should be ammortized over several yaers. I realize that some racing bopats change their sails every year but that is not the normal approach for cruising boaats. My feeling is that the cost of ownership would fit the percentages but I know in my case the cost of basic maintenance is much closer to 1 percent. The cost of ownership is close to 7 or 8 percent . That with a 35,000 dollar basis.
dockage, insurance, fuel from the equation would have to be for engine service, interior and exterior cleaning polishing and painting. There are very few items that have only a one year service life. Running riging, sails, canvas, life jackets, dinghys, electronics, all have a lifetime cost that should be ammortized over several yaers. I realize that some racing bopats change their sails every year but that is not the normal approach for cruising boaats. My feeling is that the cost of ownership would fit the percentages but I know in my case the cost of basic maintenance is much closer to 1 percent. The cost of ownership is close to 7 or 8 percent . That with a 35,000 dollar basis.
Most of the purely maintenance costs if you remove
dockage, insurance, fuel from the equation would have to be for engine service, interior and exterior cleaning polishing and painting. There are very few items that have only a one year service life. Running riging, sails, canvas, life jackets, dinghys, electronics, all have a lifetime cost that should be ammortized over several yaers. I realize that some racing bopats change their sails every year but that is not the normal approach for cruising boaats. My feeling is that the cost of ownership would fit the percentages but I know in my case the cost of basic maintenance is much closer to 1 percent. The cost of ownership is close to 7 or 8 percent . That with a 35,000 dollar basis.
dockage, insurance, fuel from the equation would have to be for engine service, interior and exterior cleaning polishing and painting. There are very few items that have only a one year service life. Running riging, sails, canvas, life jackets, dinghys, electronics, all have a lifetime cost that should be ammortized over several yaers. I realize that some racing bopats change their sails every year but that is not the normal approach for cruising boaats. My feeling is that the cost of ownership would fit the percentages but I know in my case the cost of basic maintenance is much closer to 1 percent. The cost of ownership is close to 7 or 8 percent . That with a 35,000 dollar basis.
Phil
I always thought that the 10% figure was based on what I paid for the boat and not the replacement cost. It was always close to that figure for me. I find it hard to believe that a $200K new boat could cost the owner an average of $20K every year in maintenanvce and upgrades. I have known people that have bought new high dollar boats and their maintenance and upgrades never cost anywhere near that much. I think the 10% figure would be close for most people that buy a good used boat and the 10% is based on the actual value of the boat at the time of purchase. Obviously, project boats do not fit into this category. IMHO Tony B
I always thought that the 10% figure was based on what I paid for the boat and not the replacement cost. It was always close to that figure for me. I find it hard to believe that a $200K new boat could cost the owner an average of $20K every year in maintenanvce and upgrades. I have known people that have bought new high dollar boats and their maintenance and upgrades never cost anywhere near that much. I think the 10% figure would be close for most people that buy a good used boat and the 10% is based on the actual value of the boat at the time of purchase. Obviously, project boats do not fit into this category. IMHO Tony B
Phil
I always thought that the 10% figure was based on what I paid for the boat and not the replacement cost. It was always close to that figure for me. I find it hard to believe that a $200K new boat could cost the owner an average of $20K every year in maintenanvce and upgrades. I have known people that have bought new high dollar boats and their maintenance and upgrades never cost anywhere near that much. I think the 10% figure would be close for most people that buy a good used boat and the 10% is based on the actual value of the boat at the time of purchase. Obviously, project boats do not fit into this category. IMHO Tony B
I always thought that the 10% figure was based on what I paid for the boat and not the replacement cost. It was always close to that figure for me. I find it hard to believe that a $200K new boat could cost the owner an average of $20K every year in maintenanvce and upgrades. I have known people that have bought new high dollar boats and their maintenance and upgrades never cost anywhere near that much. I think the 10% figure would be close for most people that buy a good used boat and the 10% is based on the actual value of the boat at the time of purchase. Obviously, project boats do not fit into this category. IMHO Tony B
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