Yearly costs

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T

T37 Phil

.
Jan 26, 2007
308
Norsea 27 Cleveland
Funds

Is that what a sinking fund is!? I thought it's what happens when I invest in the wrong thing at the wrong time:) It seems like the old 10% chestnut might almost be reasonable if it's figured for the used purchase price instead of new and it also includes other operating expenses. I wonder how that calculation will pan out for the "free" boat.
 
T

T37 Phil

.
Jan 26, 2007
308
Norsea 27 Cleveland
Funds

Is that what a sinking fund is!? I thought it's what happens when I invest in the wrong thing at the wrong time:) It seems like the old 10% chestnut might almost be reasonable if it's figured for the used purchase price instead of new and it also includes other operating expenses. I wonder how that calculation will pan out for the "free" boat.
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
IMHO

In my opinion it has a great deal to do with "you". What I mean by that is if you're the anal retentive type, like myself, you'll spend a lot of money to have everything just the way you like it. I happen to be overly cautious and replace stuff on regular rounds not because it necessarily needs it. I replace items long before they fail and it makes me comfortable even if it is total overkill. On the other side there are some folks who will let stuff break before they even look at it and some folks in between. A lot, but not all, of the money you spend on your boat is built in to your personality type... Fixed costs will remain but repairs and upgrades are, in many cases, discretionary..
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

.
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
IMHO

In my opinion it has a great deal to do with "you". What I mean by that is if you're the anal retentive type, like myself, you'll spend a lot of money to have everything just the way you like it. I happen to be overly cautious and replace stuff on regular rounds not because it necessarily needs it. I replace items long before they fail and it makes me comfortable even if it is total overkill. On the other side there are some folks who will let stuff break before they even look at it and some folks in between. A lot, but not all, of the money you spend on your boat is built in to your personality type... Fixed costs will remain but repairs and upgrades are, in many cases, discretionary..
 
frank balcer

frank balcer

.
Nov 18, 2006
183
Kirie Elite Elite 37 Moss Point MS
Phil.......

I bought my boat a little over a year ago for $15,000. I took out a stock loan for 5 years to pay for "Sandi's Wings" She has an almost new Universal diesel, 25 hp. Two mains two spinakers and a whole slew of great condition head sails. I maintain 2 slips here Jackson county both with power and water for a combined total of $250 a month. I tend to look at sailboat costs the same as gas. I do not look at gas prices. I fill my truck up whenever it gets near a half a tank. I always use Chevron (my employer) and when the bill comes at the end of the month I pay it. Sailing is my passion! I sail, weather permitting, every weekend (mine are 3 days) and a day or two during the summer when days are longer. I dont calculate percentages of cost versus initial costs. If my boat needs something, I get it. It it costs a lot, I work a little more overtime and then get it. Maybe I should pay more attention to money issues but I think this might take away a little from the enjoyment I get as I am close hauled with the leeward rail buried! Frank
 
frank balcer

frank balcer

.
Nov 18, 2006
183
Kirie Elite Elite 37 Moss Point MS
Phil.......

I bought my boat a little over a year ago for $15,000. I took out a stock loan for 5 years to pay for "Sandi's Wings" She has an almost new Universal diesel, 25 hp. Two mains two spinakers and a whole slew of great condition head sails. I maintain 2 slips here Jackson county both with power and water for a combined total of $250 a month. I tend to look at sailboat costs the same as gas. I do not look at gas prices. I fill my truck up whenever it gets near a half a tank. I always use Chevron (my employer) and when the bill comes at the end of the month I pay it. Sailing is my passion! I sail, weather permitting, every weekend (mine are 3 days) and a day or two during the summer when days are longer. I dont calculate percentages of cost versus initial costs. If my boat needs something, I get it. It it costs a lot, I work a little more overtime and then get it. Maybe I should pay more attention to money issues but I think this might take away a little from the enjoyment I get as I am close hauled with the leeward rail buried! Frank
 
Roger (Ninette Manitoba)

Roger (Ninette Manitoba)

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Jan 22, 2008
519
Sundance Sundance 20 Weekender Ninette, Manitoba, Canada
Every year I sink money into the boat

Some costs are maintenance about $200 last year;(bottom paint, gelcoat repairs, new lines)some are upgrades about $700 last year; (new cushions, jiffy reefing, roller furling) and some are replacements (last year $1000 for a new kicker). New a similar sized boat would be valued at about $21k. So indeed that is just under the 10% mark without slip, insurance and operating costs. Over the past few years my costs were in the 7 to 44% range, with the higher costs being in the earlier years of boat's purchase. I paid less for the boat than I have put in to it the last two years. I only lake sail however and belong to a club where everyone does their own maintenance generally. In fact we keep our club fees low by having each member donate ten hours of work to the club for maintenance etc. We all help each other at haulout, and we have fund raising events to generate capital. My point is that if I had a more expensive boat at a more expensive club, my costs would also increase proportionatly, not only for the maintenance, upgrades and replacements, but also for insurance and operating costs. Owning a sailboat is like owning a horse... the horse is the least part of the expense!
 
Roger (Ninette Manitoba)

Roger (Ninette Manitoba)

.
Jan 22, 2008
519
Sundance Sundance 20 Weekender Ninette, Manitoba, Canada
Every year I sink money into the boat

Some costs are maintenance about $200 last year;(bottom paint, gelcoat repairs, new lines)some are upgrades about $700 last year; (new cushions, jiffy reefing, roller furling) and some are replacements (last year $1000 for a new kicker). New a similar sized boat would be valued at about $21k. So indeed that is just under the 10% mark without slip, insurance and operating costs. Over the past few years my costs were in the 7 to 44% range, with the higher costs being in the earlier years of boat's purchase. I paid less for the boat than I have put in to it the last two years. I only lake sail however and belong to a club where everyone does their own maintenance generally. In fact we keep our club fees low by having each member donate ten hours of work to the club for maintenance etc. We all help each other at haulout, and we have fund raising events to generate capital. My point is that if I had a more expensive boat at a more expensive club, my costs would also increase proportionatly, not only for the maintenance, upgrades and replacements, but also for insurance and operating costs. Owning a sailboat is like owning a horse... the horse is the least part of the expense!
 
sailortonyb Allied Mis

sailortonyb Allied Mis

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Jun 12, 2004
1,181
Allied Mistress 39 Ketch Kemah,Tx.
Ross and Phil/Geneva

Ross: "What do you do to a boat that costs $3000 every year?" Ok, I bough a 30 year old boat a year and a half ago. Spent $2K on engine: needed new/rebuilt injection pump and misc. Re-did my entire freshwater system for $500: Everything except the tank. I added new pump, faucets, hoses, etc. Re-did my entire head system including new head, new tank, hoses and pump:$1.5K. Misc. varnish, paint and small projects including electrical and lights: $500. Repair head sail: $200. repair bimini: $100. This year coming: Will buy Cruising spinaker and sock:$3k, Mizzen staysail:$600. Radar $1,500. Phil/Geneva: "I wonder how that calculation will pan out for the "free" boat." On free boat, the percentage is infinate, if you start with a value of zero. Keep in mind that in most cases a free boat will continue to have little to no value, no matter how much you put into it , until you reach a point that someone else will want it. Ross spent I believe $30,000 over a period of about 10 years rebuilding his boat. Thats $3K/year. looking back, if the boat is now worth approx $30K, then thats 10% per year. Some of us dont have as much available time as others and we have to pay others to do some of the work. Tony B
 
sailortonyb Allied Mis

sailortonyb Allied Mis

.
Jun 12, 2004
1,181
Allied Mistress 39 Ketch Kemah,Tx.
Ross and Phil/Geneva

Ross: "What do you do to a boat that costs $3000 every year?" Ok, I bough a 30 year old boat a year and a half ago. Spent $2K on engine: needed new/rebuilt injection pump and misc. Re-did my entire freshwater system for $500: Everything except the tank. I added new pump, faucets, hoses, etc. Re-did my entire head system including new head, new tank, hoses and pump:$1.5K. Misc. varnish, paint and small projects including electrical and lights: $500. Repair head sail: $200. repair bimini: $100. This year coming: Will buy Cruising spinaker and sock:$3k, Mizzen staysail:$600. Radar $1,500. Phil/Geneva: "I wonder how that calculation will pan out for the "free" boat." On free boat, the percentage is infinate, if you start with a value of zero. Keep in mind that in most cases a free boat will continue to have little to no value, no matter how much you put into it , until you reach a point that someone else will want it. Ross spent I believe $30,000 over a period of about 10 years rebuilding his boat. Thats $3K/year. looking back, if the boat is now worth approx $30K, then thats 10% per year. Some of us dont have as much available time as others and we have to pay others to do some of the work. Tony B
 
Stillraining

Stillraining

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Dec 8, 2007
478
Irwin 41 CC Ketch LaConner WA
So there you have it Phil

Anywhere between 3 and 20%. Now if your the 20% type. Ross and I will take all your discards and use them on our boats.. ;) I also think Mainsail hit the nail on the head. It's all about your personality. My extra 2500.00 expenditure this year was excatly the same as his reasoning. I am in the prevenitive maintance mode as is he. But that's what will keep us from ever having to do a "Major refit" This has nothing to do with add on upgrades as that was not your question. I will spend over 10K this year on thoes but thats all frills and unessentials like adding a swimming pool to your back yard. Do you ever get your money back from that pool? Who cares, enjoy it!
 
Stillraining

Stillraining

.
Dec 8, 2007
478
Irwin 41 CC Ketch LaConner WA
So there you have it Phil

Anywhere between 3 and 20%. Now if your the 20% type. Ross and I will take all your discards and use them on our boats.. ;) I also think Mainsail hit the nail on the head. It's all about your personality. My extra 2500.00 expenditure this year was excatly the same as his reasoning. I am in the prevenitive maintance mode as is he. But that's what will keep us from ever having to do a "Major refit" This has nothing to do with add on upgrades as that was not your question. I will spend over 10K this year on thoes but thats all frills and unessentials like adding a swimming pool to your back yard. Do you ever get your money back from that pool? Who cares, enjoy it!
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
TonyB, That is just looking back. I expect to keep

Bietzpadlin for another 15 years, so that 30 Thousand must be amortized over a 25 year period. But that doesn't account for the per annum expense that is the subject of this thread. The improvements that you have mentioned will endure for several years. So while you have had some high initial costs getting the boat into the condition you want, as long as you hold the boat for the expected life of the improvements the annual cost of those improvements will be amortized.
 
Ross

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
TonyB, That is just looking back. I expect to keep

Bietzpadlin for another 15 years, so that 30 Thousand must be amortized over a 25 year period. But that doesn't account for the per annum expense that is the subject of this thread. The improvements that you have mentioned will endure for several years. So while you have had some high initial costs getting the boat into the condition you want, as long as you hold the boat for the expected life of the improvements the annual cost of those improvements will be amortized.
 
sailortonyb Allied Mis

sailortonyb Allied Mis

.
Jun 12, 2004
1,181
Allied Mistress 39 Ketch Kemah,Tx.
Ross..yes

I agreee the items will be will be amatorized, but new ones will constantly be cropping up, but probably at a slower rate. My original point to Phil on the original post is that I dont think the 10% rule applies to new boats or replacement costs. It seems to be more appropriate, at least in my experiences, to apply to used, older boats and their asociated 'value' if the boat was in reasonably good condition to begin with. My example of your boat was a response to Phil/Geneva in ref to his question about a free (or almost free) boat. The initial expenses will be high but eventually they will probably level out to 10% or close to that. Also, you statement about 'what do you do to cost $3K per year.' Since you completely rebuilt Beitzpaddlin, it should really be treated as a 'new' or 'nearly new' boat. Several years down the line, you will have the equivelant of an older, or in this case a 'used boat' and your annual maintenance costs will go up. Its late and as usual, I probably dont make much sense, but what the heck. I'm in the Biloxi area today. GF's mom has her 95th birthday tomorrow. Big family shindig. Today we celebrated my 61th BD. So, its the rum trying to explain all of this. Tony B
 
sailortonyb Allied Mis

sailortonyb Allied Mis

.
Jun 12, 2004
1,181
Allied Mistress 39 Ketch Kemah,Tx.
Ross..yes

I agreee the items will be will be amatorized, but new ones will constantly be cropping up, but probably at a slower rate. My original point to Phil on the original post is that I dont think the 10% rule applies to new boats or replacement costs. It seems to be more appropriate, at least in my experiences, to apply to used, older boats and their asociated 'value' if the boat was in reasonably good condition to begin with. My example of your boat was a response to Phil/Geneva in ref to his question about a free (or almost free) boat. The initial expenses will be high but eventually they will probably level out to 10% or close to that. Also, you statement about 'what do you do to cost $3K per year.' Since you completely rebuilt Beitzpaddlin, it should really be treated as a 'new' or 'nearly new' boat. Several years down the line, you will have the equivelant of an older, or in this case a 'used boat' and your annual maintenance costs will go up. Its late and as usual, I probably dont make much sense, but what the heck. I'm in the Biloxi area today. GF's mom has her 95th birthday tomorrow. Big family shindig. Today we celebrated my 61th BD. So, its the rum trying to explain all of this. Tony B
 
Ross

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Tony B, Have a wonderful time this week end.

You are of course quite right about there coming a time when some things will need replacing. The sails that we use are the ones that came with the boat and some of them are rather tired. We will have to face the cost of replacing them one day. I have had to splice up new dock lines and the main sheet has seen better days but given its size(9/16) it will have to get pretty bad before it is in danger of failing.
 
Ross

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Tony B, Have a wonderful time this week end.

You are of course quite right about there coming a time when some things will need replacing. The sails that we use are the ones that came with the boat and some of them are rather tired. We will have to face the cost of replacing them one day. I have had to splice up new dock lines and the main sheet has seen better days but given its size(9/16) it will have to get pretty bad before it is in danger of failing.
 
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