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if the insurance company will not represent your
then you need a good lawyer. You didn't drop the boat, the yard did. Your insurance company should represent your interest on this and if they will not then you need a good lawyer who specializes in boats. Look in latitude 38 and you will find several. On the next boat get insurance from someone who deals with boats (such as BoatUS), they WILL handle incidents on YOUR behalf. Sorry you have to suffer such a mishap, hope it all works out in the end. chris
then you need a good lawyer. You didn't drop the boat, the yard did. Your insurance company should represent your interest on this and if they will not then you need a good lawyer who specializes in boats. Look in latitude 38 and you will find several. On the next boat get insurance from someone who deals with boats (such as BoatUS), they WILL handle incidents on YOUR behalf. Sorry you have to suffer such a mishap, hope it all works out in the end. chris
This Chris?
I do not believe that a 'specialist' is really necessary for this sort of issue. It is no different than a mechanic that drops your car off the lift in the garage. You have a right to 'interview' any lawyer you are considering. If the lawyer gets huffy at your questions, avoid them like the plague. Lawyers are in the service business. If they don't give first class service...don't give them the business. You will want someone who has substantial experience in matters such as this. Let the inexperienced ones learn on someone else's dime. They may have a lower hourly rate, but it will take them twice as long to resolve the matter. Ask for references. There is no better recommendation than former clients with similar problems that were solved to their satisfaction. Have a clear understanding of the fee arrangement, get it in writing and get specific examples of any 'contingent' charges. Below is a link the the American Bar Association's referral site. Also, check with the Washington State Bar. They probably have a toll-free number for their referral service in the attorney section of your local yellow pages.
I do not believe that a 'specialist' is really necessary for this sort of issue. It is no different than a mechanic that drops your car off the lift in the garage. You have a right to 'interview' any lawyer you are considering. If the lawyer gets huffy at your questions, avoid them like the plague. Lawyers are in the service business. If they don't give first class service...don't give them the business. You will want someone who has substantial experience in matters such as this. Let the inexperienced ones learn on someone else's dime. They may have a lower hourly rate, but it will take them twice as long to resolve the matter. Ask for references. There is no better recommendation than former clients with similar problems that were solved to their satisfaction. Have a clear understanding of the fee arrangement, get it in writing and get specific examples of any 'contingent' charges. Below is a link the the American Bar Association's referral site. Also, check with the Washington State Bar. They probably have a toll-free number for their referral service in the attorney section of your local yellow pages.
Chris B, you're the one
Perfect, that should help him a lot. And to the other Chris, that was good info too.
Perfect, that should help him a lot. And to the other Chris, that was good info too.
Start Creating a Diary
John - if you haven't started already I'd recommend you start puting together a diary on this incident. For the things that have already happened try to remember as many details as possible and put it down in writing. For the new stuff write it down as it happens. You may not need it... but then again, you might. Dates, times, places, names, phone numbers, items discussed, etc. etc. Digital pictures? Maybe your surveyor can recommend some attorneys? I'm sure he's been involved. If the surveyor was involved with the case maybe you could somehow find out the individuals name and phone number and talk to them to see how they felt about their attorney? The boat will probably float without the rudder in. You may want to consider talking to another yard about doing the repair if they don't get nicer about the situation. Waterproof the cracks on the outside and tow the boat to the other yard. If it were me I don't think I would want them doing any of the work given what you've said. Marine Service Center: I don't recommend going to Marine Service Center because we had our top-of-the-line stereo and CDs stolen, about $2,500 worth (including damage to the hatch) and they said they weren't insured. Met the owner delivering a new Jenneau 50-something up in Alaska where I reminded him about my incident in his yard. All he said was "Sorry about that". Never did get anything out of them. Not only that, but both my "Marine insurance company" and the underwriter, Anchor Marine, were virtually useless. Hopefully your situation will work out better.
John - if you haven't started already I'd recommend you start puting together a diary on this incident. For the things that have already happened try to remember as many details as possible and put it down in writing. For the new stuff write it down as it happens. You may not need it... but then again, you might. Dates, times, places, names, phone numbers, items discussed, etc. etc. Digital pictures? Maybe your surveyor can recommend some attorneys? I'm sure he's been involved. If the surveyor was involved with the case maybe you could somehow find out the individuals name and phone number and talk to them to see how they felt about their attorney? The boat will probably float without the rudder in. You may want to consider talking to another yard about doing the repair if they don't get nicer about the situation. Waterproof the cracks on the outside and tow the boat to the other yard. If it were me I don't think I would want them doing any of the work given what you've said. Marine Service Center: I don't recommend going to Marine Service Center because we had our top-of-the-line stereo and CDs stolen, about $2,500 worth (including damage to the hatch) and they said they weren't insured. Met the owner delivering a new Jenneau 50-something up in Alaska where I reminded him about my incident in his yard. All he said was "Sorry about that". Never did get anything out of them. Not only that, but both my "Marine insurance company" and the underwriter, Anchor Marine, were virtually useless. Hopefully your situation will work out better.
John, add your insurance company to the suit
GET AN ATTORNEY!!! Have him send them all a demand letter and do it now. Do not talk to these guys yourself - it only hurts you. Stop messing around with these idiots. They are stalling and waffeling like they did before with my friend. Delay, inspection, discussion and conversation will only serve to compromise your claim. John N is right too - keep a journal of this. Like I said, you can always apologize after the check clears.
GET AN ATTORNEY!!! Have him send them all a demand letter and do it now. Do not talk to these guys yourself - it only hurts you. Stop messing around with these idiots. They are stalling and waffeling like they did before with my friend. Delay, inspection, discussion and conversation will only serve to compromise your claim. John N is right too - keep a journal of this. Like I said, you can always apologize after the check clears.
benefits of hiring an attorney
I too am an attorney and think that you should hire one soon. I would never have allowed my expert witness to coordinate with the defense before I had an independent report. And while I havn't seen your policy, I have seen many and most require a formal report of an incident to preserve your rights to recover. In addition St. Farm may have a duty to repair and then recover from the yard, depending on your coverage, but they will not have to take those steps without the proper demand from you or your representative. I dont recall in WA but in OR we have a consumer protection statute that starts a clock running from the date of your formal report and demand for repair. If your situtation has not been resolved in I believe 5 months, they are automatically on the hook for your attorneys fees and consequential damages that are not normally available in a contract dispute-which is what you have when you are forced to fight with your ins company. No offense to anyone intended but there are many aspects of litigation that one who is not an attorney simply is unlikely to be able to discover and understand on their own. And while I recognize that my profession has good and bad members, as does any group or class of people, it always strikes me as ironic that people hate aggresive trial attorneys, until they have been injured, accused or financially compromised. I too would appreciate it if posters would not generalize about all of us and remember that people dont go see an attorney because they are having a good day, they come to us because they have been harmed or wronged, and if you are the one hurt wouldn't you want someone to fight the best they can to help you out?
I too am an attorney and think that you should hire one soon. I would never have allowed my expert witness to coordinate with the defense before I had an independent report. And while I havn't seen your policy, I have seen many and most require a formal report of an incident to preserve your rights to recover. In addition St. Farm may have a duty to repair and then recover from the yard, depending on your coverage, but they will not have to take those steps without the proper demand from you or your representative. I dont recall in WA but in OR we have a consumer protection statute that starts a clock running from the date of your formal report and demand for repair. If your situtation has not been resolved in I believe 5 months, they are automatically on the hook for your attorneys fees and consequential damages that are not normally available in a contract dispute-which is what you have when you are forced to fight with your ins company. No offense to anyone intended but there are many aspects of litigation that one who is not an attorney simply is unlikely to be able to discover and understand on their own. And while I recognize that my profession has good and bad members, as does any group or class of people, it always strikes me as ironic that people hate aggresive trial attorneys, until they have been injured, accused or financially compromised. I too would appreciate it if posters would not generalize about all of us and remember that people dont go see an attorney because they are having a good day, they come to us because they have been harmed or wronged, and if you are the one hurt wouldn't you want someone to fight the best they can to help you out?
Thanks, Monty
You said it so much better than I tried to do. Bottom line as far as I am concerned is that if you be nice and try to work it out with someone who has done something to hurt you, it eventually turns sour and then all of the cooperation, conversation, and negotiation can and probably will be used against you. It compounds the damage and a lot of people cannot deal with the bad feelings and quit or compromise their position. Not always, but often enough to make it always a bad idea. You already know that these guys dropped your boat. How much proof do you need that they are not going to do you any favors?
You said it so much better than I tried to do. Bottom line as far as I am concerned is that if you be nice and try to work it out with someone who has done something to hurt you, it eventually turns sour and then all of the cooperation, conversation, and negotiation can and probably will be used against you. It compounds the damage and a lot of people cannot deal with the bad feelings and quit or compromise their position. Not always, but often enough to make it always a bad idea. You already know that these guys dropped your boat. How much proof do you need that they are not going to do you any favors?
further update
Once again I want to thank all of you for your salient insights. As it stands now the buyer is still with me. Thank God for that. The insurance co (State Farm) has agreed to pay for the previously surveyed damage and the boat yard has fixed the damage from dropping the boat. All except the rudder. We’re having a new rudder built because of the corrosion and stainless steel rudder stock of the type I need is not available. It looks like I’ll have to stand the cost of the new rudder $5K. I’m crossing my fingers that all will go well. The new owner will get a new rudder and hopefully a stronger boat. We have two independent surveyor’s to insure that things are done correctly. Do you think I can get either the yard or the Insurance Co. to pay for the new rudder?
Once again I want to thank all of you for your salient insights. As it stands now the buyer is still with me. Thank God for that. The insurance co (State Farm) has agreed to pay for the previously surveyed damage and the boat yard has fixed the damage from dropping the boat. All except the rudder. We’re having a new rudder built because of the corrosion and stainless steel rudder stock of the type I need is not available. It looks like I’ll have to stand the cost of the new rudder $5K. I’m crossing my fingers that all will go well. The new owner will get a new rudder and hopefully a stronger boat. We have two independent surveyor’s to insure that things are done correctly. Do you think I can get either the yard or the Insurance Co. to pay for the new rudder?
Offer a split
I'd offer the yard a split, say 50/50 on the rudder. "It was usable as was, but you guys dropped it. Granted, it was somewhat corroded, so I'll cover half, you cover half." You'd be surprised how often things like that work.
I'd offer the yard a split, say 50/50 on the rudder. "It was usable as was, but you guys dropped it. Granted, it was somewhat corroded, so I'll cover half, you cover half." You'd be surprised how often things like that work.
half and half
That was my thought too. So far the yard has been very accomodating. No one wants the rep. of dropping a boat.
That was my thought too. So far the yard has been very accomodating. No one wants the rep. of dropping a boat.
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