/I have just spent over £500 sterling thats about 800 US on replacing the starter on my 376. the starter had jammed in so that it was driven by the engine which of course burnt it out. Now my boat has only been used for about three seasons so it hardly seems fair wear and tear. My vehicles for work are in use all year and work 50 times harder, the replacement cost would only be a fraction, (In forty years driving I've never replaced one). bearing in mind the extortionate price needless to say I am very dissapointed. If I was being swept on to a lea shore or a sand bar I could of lost my boat, or worse. When the starter was replaced as a precaution we replaced the starter switch (included in the price) Hoping to avoid a repeat. Has any body else had a similar experience? what else would cause the premature demise? or is there a problem out there? Im thinking of replacing my little Honda Two horse for the inflatable with a five horse power with a bracket for quick attachment to the transome as a means to get into the marina. Any thoughts anybody.
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GENERAL INFO/STARTERS
DEAR MR. TOWNSEND, AS I HAVE BEEN REBUILDING/REPAIRING STARTERS FOR NEARLY THIRTY YEARS NOW I'D LIKE TO SHARE SOME INFO WITH YOU. THE TYPE OF FAILURE YOU DESCIBE IS CATASTROPHIC,BUT FORTUNATELY QUITE RARE.BELIEVE IT OR NOT,THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE IS A FAULTY BATTERY.I URGE YOU TO REMOVE YOUR BATTERY AND HAVE IT LOAD TESTED BY A PROPER ELECTRICIAN. WE LOAD TEST MOST BATTERIES AT 200-250 AMP FOR AT LEAST 30-40 SECONDS.(VOLTAGE SHOULD NOT DROP TO LESS THAN 9.0 VOLTS DURING THIS TEST.IF YOUR BATTERY IS MORE THAN 3 SEASONS OLD-REPLACE IT. THERE ARE OTHER,LESS COMMON CAUSES FOR THIS PROBLEM.PLEASE WRITE FOR MORE INFO IF YOU NEED IT. I WILL BE GLAD TO HELP.(ABARBIN@STARPOWER.NET) THE EXPLANATION OF WHY THE BATTERY MAY BE THE CAUSE IS A LITTLE LONG- WINDED FOR THIS FORMAT,BUT IF YOU LIKE JUST DROP ME A NOTE.I WILL RESPOND TONY BARBIN
DEAR MR. TOWNSEND, AS I HAVE BEEN REBUILDING/REPAIRING STARTERS FOR NEARLY THIRTY YEARS NOW I'D LIKE TO SHARE SOME INFO WITH YOU. THE TYPE OF FAILURE YOU DESCIBE IS CATASTROPHIC,BUT FORTUNATELY QUITE RARE.BELIEVE IT OR NOT,THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE IS A FAULTY BATTERY.I URGE YOU TO REMOVE YOUR BATTERY AND HAVE IT LOAD TESTED BY A PROPER ELECTRICIAN. WE LOAD TEST MOST BATTERIES AT 200-250 AMP FOR AT LEAST 30-40 SECONDS.(VOLTAGE SHOULD NOT DROP TO LESS THAN 9.0 VOLTS DURING THIS TEST.IF YOUR BATTERY IS MORE THAN 3 SEASONS OLD-REPLACE IT. THERE ARE OTHER,LESS COMMON CAUSES FOR THIS PROBLEM.PLEASE WRITE FOR MORE INFO IF YOU NEED IT. I WILL BE GLAD TO HELP.(ABARBIN@STARPOWER.NET) THE EXPLANATION OF WHY THE BATTERY MAY BE THE CAUSE IS A LITTLE LONG- WINDED FOR THIS FORMAT,BUT IF YOU LIKE JUST DROP ME A NOTE.I WILL RESPOND TONY BARBIN
2hp Honda Thoughts
That's an expensive starter repair allright! If it was much more maybe one could just change out the Yanmar for a new Perkins?? With regard to the 2hp Honda, however, unless there is a lot of wind or current it's surprising how well it'll push/pull the boat along. One day I ran out of fuel while motoring and used an old 3hp Johnson, circa 1965, on a dingy to pull my Hunter 35 to the side of the main channel where it was shallow enough to drop the hook. The main channel depth here is over 400 to 600 feet. Boat speed with the outboard was 4.5 knots through the water even though there was about a 1.5 to 2.0 ft chop. The old horsepower ratings were measured at the head where as the newer ratings are measured at the prop so the old 3hp is probably more like 2.5hp. In 13 years my starter on the 3GM30 has never failed but then that can be the luck of the draw. Shortly after getting the boat new in 1988 all the main battery cables were upgraded to 00, including the ground to the engine, and the starter motor and Balmar alternator were upgraded to a #2. In the process I found out why the motor often seemed to start a little slower than I would like - the starter cable had some hidden corrosion at the connector (less than 4 years old). With the new MARINE GRADE connectors the motor spun over like a top. Since low voltage to a motor will cause premature failure it pays to use large conductors and good ones. I'm not saying this is anything connected to your problem but for others reading this thread I'm using the opportunity to put a plug in for good conductors.
That's an expensive starter repair allright! If it was much more maybe one could just change out the Yanmar for a new Perkins?? With regard to the 2hp Honda, however, unless there is a lot of wind or current it's surprising how well it'll push/pull the boat along. One day I ran out of fuel while motoring and used an old 3hp Johnson, circa 1965, on a dingy to pull my Hunter 35 to the side of the main channel where it was shallow enough to drop the hook. The main channel depth here is over 400 to 600 feet. Boat speed with the outboard was 4.5 knots through the water even though there was about a 1.5 to 2.0 ft chop. The old horsepower ratings were measured at the head where as the newer ratings are measured at the prop so the old 3hp is probably more like 2.5hp. In 13 years my starter on the 3GM30 has never failed but then that can be the luck of the draw. Shortly after getting the boat new in 1988 all the main battery cables were upgraded to 00, including the ground to the engine, and the starter motor and Balmar alternator were upgraded to a #2. In the process I found out why the motor often seemed to start a little slower than I would like - the starter cable had some hidden corrosion at the connector (less than 4 years old). With the new MARINE GRADE connectors the motor spun over like a top. Since low voltage to a motor will cause premature failure it pays to use large conductors and good ones. I'm not saying this is anything connected to your problem but for others reading this thread I'm using the opportunity to put a plug in for good conductors.
Question
John, Thanks for the tip. I have a '96 376 on the Hamble and belong to the Legend Owners Association and I will pass the word, though I imagine it might be a common problem to the engine rather than the boat. My engine starts at the first touch of the key and the starter never runs for more than a second - so the problem may be lying in wait. My question is - "did you notice any whine from the engine due to the very high speed of the driven starter gear, or is the installation too well sound insulated?" I know one hears it on a car engine as we had a mini which did it all the time and we carried a crowbar to clout the starter with! If it was audible I will listen out for it. If it is not then I guess there is no other warning. Regards, Don Alexander - donalex@compuserve.com
John, Thanks for the tip. I have a '96 376 on the Hamble and belong to the Legend Owners Association and I will pass the word, though I imagine it might be a common problem to the engine rather than the boat. My engine starts at the first touch of the key and the starter never runs for more than a second - so the problem may be lying in wait. My question is - "did you notice any whine from the engine due to the very high speed of the driven starter gear, or is the installation too well sound insulated?" I know one hears it on a car engine as we had a mini which did it all the time and we carried a crowbar to clout the starter with! If it was audible I will listen out for it. If it is not then I guess there is no other warning. Regards, Don Alexander - donalex@compuserve.com
Starter Noise
Don - My motor installation is insulated but not so much that I can't hear what's going on. My engine doesn't start right off (like yours which sounds like it starts really good) unless it's been running recently. When it cranks the sound is basically a 'normal' cranking sound, no whine or anything adnormal. When there is air in the fuel system the engine is harder to start and one has to 'crank' it while the cylinders get fired off. The Yanmar manual has cautions about how long the starter can be used and then there has to be a cooling-off period so I try to take it easy on the system. After the engine is running it's easier to bleed the system. I'm no starter expert but if there was frequent whining during starting this may be an indication that something was not right with the starter to begin with. Since a diesel shakes a lot, more so than a gas engine, it pays to go over it with a wrench once in a while just to see if there is anything loose and in doing this I found one of the bolts on my starter to be somewhat loose. Unfortunately, it sounds like your starter problem may have been 'lying in wait'.
Don - My motor installation is insulated but not so much that I can't hear what's going on. My engine doesn't start right off (like yours which sounds like it starts really good) unless it's been running recently. When it cranks the sound is basically a 'normal' cranking sound, no whine or anything adnormal. When there is air in the fuel system the engine is harder to start and one has to 'crank' it while the cylinders get fired off. The Yanmar manual has cautions about how long the starter can be used and then there has to be a cooling-off period so I try to take it easy on the system. After the engine is running it's easier to bleed the system. I'm no starter expert but if there was frequent whining during starting this may be an indication that something was not right with the starter to begin with. Since a diesel shakes a lot, more so than a gas engine, it pays to go over it with a wrench once in a while just to see if there is anything loose and in doing this I found one of the bolts on my starter to be somewhat loose. Unfortunately, it sounds like your starter problem may have been 'lying in wait'.
answer to questions.
My engine starts on the button with no hesitation. I did not hear any unusual noise from the engine, But my Wife said she thought there was a noise from the engine but as we were busy avoiding moored boats in the twizzle she did not pay any attention to it. A theorie put to me was that the starter switch kept he starter engaged after the engine had fired. we will probablly never know for sure. thanks for the responses John Townsend. boiler.man@virgin.net
My engine starts on the button with no hesitation. I did not hear any unusual noise from the engine, But my Wife said she thought there was a noise from the engine but as we were busy avoiding moored boats in the twizzle she did not pay any attention to it. A theorie put to me was that the starter switch kept he starter engaged after the engine had fired. we will probablly never know for sure. thanks for the responses John Townsend. boiler.man@virgin.net
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