I installed a high output Balmar alternator on my Yanmar 4JH2BE (Hunter 40.5) I found continual belt slippage, and lots of belt wear. I recenty solved this in a pretty neat way, and wonder if any other Hunter owners have come across this, and are in need of a resolution. By the way, as a follow up to my fridge and freezer drain sump solution, I have not one drop of water in my bilge, and 100% of the smell in my boat, (other than my 13 year old son's socks), is gone.
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Why not let us all in on your idea?
Mine had been installed with an undersized pivot bolt which allowed it to twist out of alignment under load. One belt is not enough either in my opinion but I haven't solved that yet.
Mine had been installed with an undersized pivot bolt which allowed it to twist out of alignment under load. One belt is not enough either in my opinion but I haven't solved that yet.
High Output?
Arthur, What's the amp output rating on your alternator. I put a 110 amp on my engine last winter and it's been fine. My recollection is anything much more than that requires two belts. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
Arthur, What's the amp output rating on your alternator. I put a 110 amp on my engine last winter and it's been fine. My recollection is anything much more than that requires two belts. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
OK, here's the scoop
The problem with fitting a high output alternator on the Yanmar is belt slippage, wear, and lotsa belt dust. Most high output alternators come with dual V belt pullies, but this won't help you on the Yanmar. And of course, Yanmar makes no upgrade kit. If you look at the front of the flywheel face, there are 4 tapped holes (M8). These are actually used for some sort of Yanmar power take-off kit. Anyway, the trick is to get away from V belts altogether, and go to what's called a K6 Serpentine flat belt. These have great flexability, won't wear like V belts, and one K6 easilly drives what 2 V belts are rated for. Now, you'll notice that the existing V belt goes around the flywheel, up around the water pump, and then loops over the alternator, which gives it the tension. What we're going to do is break this up into 2 belts: A V belt for the water pump A new Serpentine belt for the Alternator. This has many advantages: Firstly, with a high output alternator, there is a lot of side force tensioning the alternator. It is actually way too much for the water pump, and will damage the bearings over time. So by having the Water Pump on its own V belt, there's harldly any stress on it, and will probably last forever. Also, by dividing up the belts, you won't ever get into the situation where a broken alternator belt "loses" your water pump, and overheats (siezes) your engine. So... Here's how to do this. Note: You'll need access to a machine shop, but nothing fancy. Firstly, the trick is to find a Serpentine pulley that will fit on the yanmar flywheel. Go to Jones Racing Products. http://www.jonesracingproducts.com Get to the area for the CS - 5102 Serpentine Pulleys Dual Dowel Pin Design. You will probably need about 5.5" or 6". It's not listed, but they make it. All that you need to do is machine a 6" diameter 3/8" thick aluminum plate which picks up the Yanmar flywheel holes, and mount the pulley to the center of this. Use the 4 dowel holes on the pulley to screw it to the 6" plate. Next, You will purchase a Serpentine altenator pulley from Jones as well, and mount it to the alternator. At this juncture you will notice that the crankshaft pulley is about 1.25" forward, (out of line), with the alternator. To remedy this, you pull the alternator, and move it forward by switching the postion of the long 1.5" spacer bushing. Then you will need to "spacer forward" the alternator swing arm by an equal amount. For this, get a simple tube spacer made on a lathe. (Steel) There my be some misalignment where the alternator is too far forward, and out of line with the crankshaft. This is easy to correct. Just put washers between the crankshaft pulley adapter plate and the crankshaft. Lastly, we have to deal with the water pump. You can purchase from a variety of bearing supply houses idler plastic pulleys. You will need to mount a small flat metal plate between the flywheel and water pump, to which you screw on the idler. The function of the idler is to take up tension in the V belt once you've looped it from the flywheel to the water pump. Once this is all done, you should see higher alternator output, (no slipping), along with zero belt wear. Arthur Boas
The problem with fitting a high output alternator on the Yanmar is belt slippage, wear, and lotsa belt dust. Most high output alternators come with dual V belt pullies, but this won't help you on the Yanmar. And of course, Yanmar makes no upgrade kit. If you look at the front of the flywheel face, there are 4 tapped holes (M8). These are actually used for some sort of Yanmar power take-off kit. Anyway, the trick is to get away from V belts altogether, and go to what's called a K6 Serpentine flat belt. These have great flexability, won't wear like V belts, and one K6 easilly drives what 2 V belts are rated for. Now, you'll notice that the existing V belt goes around the flywheel, up around the water pump, and then loops over the alternator, which gives it the tension. What we're going to do is break this up into 2 belts: A V belt for the water pump A new Serpentine belt for the Alternator. This has many advantages: Firstly, with a high output alternator, there is a lot of side force tensioning the alternator. It is actually way too much for the water pump, and will damage the bearings over time. So by having the Water Pump on its own V belt, there's harldly any stress on it, and will probably last forever. Also, by dividing up the belts, you won't ever get into the situation where a broken alternator belt "loses" your water pump, and overheats (siezes) your engine. So... Here's how to do this. Note: You'll need access to a machine shop, but nothing fancy. Firstly, the trick is to find a Serpentine pulley that will fit on the yanmar flywheel. Go to Jones Racing Products. http://www.jonesracingproducts.com Get to the area for the CS - 5102 Serpentine Pulleys Dual Dowel Pin Design. You will probably need about 5.5" or 6". It's not listed, but they make it. All that you need to do is machine a 6" diameter 3/8" thick aluminum plate which picks up the Yanmar flywheel holes, and mount the pulley to the center of this. Use the 4 dowel holes on the pulley to screw it to the 6" plate. Next, You will purchase a Serpentine altenator pulley from Jones as well, and mount it to the alternator. At this juncture you will notice that the crankshaft pulley is about 1.25" forward, (out of line), with the alternator. To remedy this, you pull the alternator, and move it forward by switching the postion of the long 1.5" spacer bushing. Then you will need to "spacer forward" the alternator swing arm by an equal amount. For this, get a simple tube spacer made on a lathe. (Steel) There my be some misalignment where the alternator is too far forward, and out of line with the crankshaft. This is easy to correct. Just put washers between the crankshaft pulley adapter plate and the crankshaft. Lastly, we have to deal with the water pump. You can purchase from a variety of bearing supply houses idler plastic pulleys. You will need to mount a small flat metal plate between the flywheel and water pump, to which you screw on the idler. The function of the idler is to take up tension in the V belt once you've looped it from the flywheel to the water pump. Once this is all done, you should see higher alternator output, (no slipping), along with zero belt wear. Arthur Boas
Thanks Arthur.
I have the 3GM30F so it's a little different than your setup. Refer to the picture, I want to pick your brain. For just driving the alternator with two belts, I've seen a simple and inexpensive solution on THIS engine. It was setup with two water pump pulleys bolted against each other and two crank pulleys. The outer pulley had its inner hub removed so that it would also bolt up close to the inner pulley. Slick. But I want to drive lotsa stuff. See the pump at the upper left? That's for the water maker. Next to it is the refer/ac pump. Forget about the idler pulleys. At the lower right is a power steering pump for the starboard hydraulic primary winch. A serpentine belt is the ideal solution if the pump drives can be accommodated. The top pumps use a sharply tapered shaft. The bottom pump has a straight shaft and the pulley is held in place with a pressure washer. The aluminum drive pulley is from Yanmar. I would like to keep all pulleys on the same plane. The room behind the engine cover is maxed-out. The web site you provided shows all applications of serpentines drives, as if they were v-belts. I would need to do some switch-backs with the same belt. What do you think?
I have the 3GM30F so it's a little different than your setup. Refer to the picture, I want to pick your brain. For just driving the alternator with two belts, I've seen a simple and inexpensive solution on THIS engine. It was setup with two water pump pulleys bolted against each other and two crank pulleys. The outer pulley had its inner hub removed so that it would also bolt up close to the inner pulley. Slick. But I want to drive lotsa stuff. See the pump at the upper left? That's for the water maker. Next to it is the refer/ac pump. Forget about the idler pulleys. At the lower right is a power steering pump for the starboard hydraulic primary winch. A serpentine belt is the ideal solution if the pump drives can be accommodated. The top pumps use a sharply tapered shaft. The bottom pump has a straight shaft and the pulley is held in place with a pressure washer. The aluminum drive pulley is from Yanmar. I would like to keep all pulleys on the same plane. The room behind the engine cover is maxed-out. The web site you provided shows all applications of serpentines drives, as if they were v-belts. I would need to do some switch-backs with the same belt. What do you think?
Some thoughts and questions
You have certainly quite a few items running off your crankshaft. The idea of doubling up the water pump pulley is not good, and I did indeed think of that. The problem is that you double the side stress on the water pump bearings, and it's not rated to do that. It will shorten the bearing life. I gather you're trying to improve the alternator drive at this point. Going to think on that just a bit. Wondering what you meant by "switchback" Also, curious about the hydraulic winch. Looking forward to hearing back. Arthur Boas
You have certainly quite a few items running off your crankshaft. The idea of doubling up the water pump pulley is not good, and I did indeed think of that. The problem is that you double the side stress on the water pump bearings, and it's not rated to do that. It will shorten the bearing life. I gather you're trying to improve the alternator drive at this point. Going to think on that just a bit. Wondering what you meant by "switchback" Also, curious about the hydraulic winch. Looking forward to hearing back. Arthur Boas
Arthur, it's explained on my web site.
The hydraulic winch is on pictures #10-13. By switchback, I'm referring to the ability of ONE serpentine belt to drive ALL accessories at the same time. These belts 'back-belt' by design, like on a modern car.
The hydraulic winch is on pictures #10-13. By switchback, I'm referring to the ability of ONE serpentine belt to drive ALL accessories at the same time. These belts 'back-belt' by design, like on a modern car.
Neat web site
Well, I'm very impressed by your competency, in the rebuild. Lots of well thought out modifications. As far as "dry bilge" I perfected this on my 40.5. It drove me crazy that the fridge and freezer drained to the bilge. The boat always stank. If you look in archives, you will see how I fixed it. The shower sump isn't bad, but you'll need to keep it washed every few days. It is surprising how much condensate comes out of the fridge / freezer. Want to ask you about your bow 120 V inlet. Do you still have the rear power inlet? If so, I have some suggestions.Wiring is one thing I'm very good at. Speaking of which, nice panel job. I did the same thing on my 40.5, taking everything to terminal blocks. Your hydraulic winch is interesting, but frankly I find it too complicated on the control side. Don't mean to be critical, but you can buy on ebay a 12VDC hydraulic spool valve, which can then be controlled with any small toggle switch. Maybe a thought for future. Small question: On your shower sumps, did you put in check valves? Prevents backwash and keeps sump drier. Still looking into the alternator drive. Regards, Arthur
Well, I'm very impressed by your competency, in the rebuild. Lots of well thought out modifications. As far as "dry bilge" I perfected this on my 40.5. It drove me crazy that the fridge and freezer drained to the bilge. The boat always stank. If you look in archives, you will see how I fixed it. The shower sump isn't bad, but you'll need to keep it washed every few days. It is surprising how much condensate comes out of the fridge / freezer. Want to ask you about your bow 120 V inlet. Do you still have the rear power inlet? If so, I have some suggestions.Wiring is one thing I'm very good at. Speaking of which, nice panel job. I did the same thing on my 40.5, taking everything to terminal blocks. Your hydraulic winch is interesting, but frankly I find it too complicated on the control side. Don't mean to be critical, but you can buy on ebay a 12VDC hydraulic spool valve, which can then be controlled with any small toggle switch. Maybe a thought for future. Small question: On your shower sumps, did you put in check valves? Prevents backwash and keeps sump drier. Still looking into the alternator drive. Regards, Arthur
Thanks Arthur.
You're very kind. First, the bow power inlet just connects at the panel where the stock cockpit inlet connects. That means the inlet side of the Prosine inverter. That also means the contacts under the cockpit power plug cap are HOT when on shore power. The cap is always on so it's no problem. That 12 volt spool valve is a new one to me. Never heard of them. Sounds great. Getting rid of the control lever would be an improvement. Can you send me some scoop via my email link on my web site? No check-valve on the shower sump. It's a space problem. But that's planned in the future. As the pump works now, we are about one teaspoon of water short of having the pump cycle continuously. And thanks again Arthur for the nice comments. Any chance of you posting pictures?
You're very kind. First, the bow power inlet just connects at the panel where the stock cockpit inlet connects. That means the inlet side of the Prosine inverter. That also means the contacts under the cockpit power plug cap are HOT when on shore power. The cap is always on so it's no problem. That 12 volt spool valve is a new one to me. Never heard of them. Sounds great. Getting rid of the control lever would be an improvement. Can you send me some scoop via my email link on my web site? No check-valve on the shower sump. It's a space problem. But that's planned in the future. As the pump works now, we are about one teaspoon of water short of having the pump cycle continuously. And thanks again Arthur for the nice comments. Any chance of you posting pictures?
I'll get some pics...soon
The check valve for the sump is just a 3/4" in-line unit that hose-clamps into the shower sump outlet. Whale, forespar, and others make them. About 10 bucks. (and worth it) The valve I refer to is just your standard hydraulic 3 or 4 way, spring return coil activated. Typically they are 110 VAC or 24VDC coils, but 12 is easilly avalailable. I'll go on ebay, and send you a sample link. Here's a very cool idea for your shore power. You already have a cockpit locker inlet, which once in a while would be handy depending on your docking situation. Instead of wiring the bow inlet terminals to the stern inlet terminals direcly, do the following: Find an old shore power cord, and cut off the Female 30 Amp twist lock end, with about 3 feet of cable attached. Now, from the bow wiring that you have run aft, disconect it from the stern inlet. Install a small junction box, and wire it into the Female pigtail, and strain relief it. The plug must be long enough to plug into the existing stern inlet. Want to use your bow power? Plug the pigtail into the stern inlet. Want to use your original stern inlet? Unplug the pigtail, and plug your cord into the existing stern inlet. The unused inlet will always now be safe. Neat eh? Regards, Arthur Boas
The check valve for the sump is just a 3/4" in-line unit that hose-clamps into the shower sump outlet. Whale, forespar, and others make them. About 10 bucks. (and worth it) The valve I refer to is just your standard hydraulic 3 or 4 way, spring return coil activated. Typically they are 110 VAC or 24VDC coils, but 12 is easilly avalailable. I'll go on ebay, and send you a sample link. Here's a very cool idea for your shore power. You already have a cockpit locker inlet, which once in a while would be handy depending on your docking situation. Instead of wiring the bow inlet terminals to the stern inlet terminals direcly, do the following: Find an old shore power cord, and cut off the Female 30 Amp twist lock end, with about 3 feet of cable attached. Now, from the bow wiring that you have run aft, disconect it from the stern inlet. Install a small junction box, and wire it into the Female pigtail, and strain relief it. The plug must be long enough to plug into the existing stern inlet. Want to use your bow power? Plug the pigtail into the stern inlet. Want to use your original stern inlet? Unplug the pigtail, and plug your cord into the existing stern inlet. The unused inlet will always now be safe. Neat eh? Regards, Arthur Boas
Now that's creative.
But we don't have small unsupervised children aboard so I have a perfect safety record. Besides, how are kids suppose to learn?
Oh, I need one parameter on that hydraulic valve; it's reversible. Up and down. It drives the motor in opposite directions just like a winch handle. Up is high speed, down is slow. Can a solenoid do that? Must be a way.
But we don't have small unsupervised children aboard so I have a perfect safety record. Besides, how are kids suppose to learn?
Oh, I need one parameter on that hydraulic valve; it's reversible. Up and down. It drives the motor in opposite directions just like a winch handle. Up is high speed, down is slow. Can a solenoid do that? Must be a way.Absolutley.
Just think of a hydraulic valve that has the same mechanical valving structure as yours, but is driven by a solenoid instead of a handle.. Same basic concept. I'll get you a few ebay links. By the way, was it a Rotac hydraulic cylinder you used for the winch, or unknown. Looks like it may have been out of a car wash scrubber unit
Just think of a hydraulic valve that has the same mechanical valving structure as yours, but is driven by a solenoid instead of a handle.. Same basic concept. I'll get you a few ebay links. By the way, was it a Rotac hydraulic cylinder you used for the winch, or unknown. Looks like it may have been out of a car wash scrubber unit
Here's a valve link on ebay
This valve is $50 brand new. Tell me your thoughts Arthur http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57011&item=7518436970&rd=1
This valve is $50 brand new. Tell me your thoughts Arthur http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57011&item=7518436970&rd=1
Got it Arthur.
Now I have more work to do like figuring out if the treads and seats will fit. And all I know about the stuff that's installed now is that the valve is for a log splitter and made in Italy. The first motor I installed was a weak aluminum cased model that I saw on the shelf of the vendor. I didn't ask any questions then because it just looked right and would fit. Wrong. It only had 85 inch pounds of torque. I took it back and cried. (remember, this is going-on 20 years ago) The counter-man turned around and grabbed an iron one off the shelf. Here ya go, he said. 'This one is 1400 inch pounds. (My Barients are rated at 1200 IP.) It works nicely.
Now I have more work to do like figuring out if the treads and seats will fit. And all I know about the stuff that's installed now is that the valve is for a log splitter and made in Italy. The first motor I installed was a weak aluminum cased model that I saw on the shelf of the vendor. I didn't ask any questions then because it just looked right and would fit. Wrong. It only had 85 inch pounds of torque. I took it back and cried. (remember, this is going-on 20 years ago) The counter-man turned around and grabbed an iron one off the shelf. Here ya go, he said. 'This one is 1400 inch pounds. (My Barients are rated at 1200 IP.) It works nicely.
By the way, I totally agree..
With your comments about Antigua. Rude, insulting, arrogant, etc., etc. Never going to spend one more dime there. Lots of other places that actually appreciate tourists, instead of resenting them, and ripping them off whenever possible. Arthur
With your comments about Antigua. Rude, insulting, arrogant, etc., etc. Never going to spend one more dime there. Lots of other places that actually appreciate tourists, instead of resenting them, and ripping them off whenever possible. Arthur
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