That certainly raises the possibility!! I was picturing a harbor / anchorage with mooring lines & typically pretty sheltered.......
Yanmar 4jhe won't start after anchor line caught in prop
- Thread starter savoirfaire2014
- Start date
There are two possible ways for the engine to ingest water from the exhaust... unlikely, yes, but still possible.
If the engine was pulled backwards even a little bit after being stopped by a rubber band effect of the tight line wrapped around the prop shaft, it could suck water in... or with the hot engine being stopped so suddenly with fuel in the cylinders, it could have tried to run backwards a stroke before stalling...
it should be easy enough to pull the glow plugs and check it.
turn the crank completely over by hand twice.... then, after turning over by hand, and only then, should you crank with the starter to dry the cylinders out... replace the glow plugs if you find no damage or odd noises.. and start.
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The convention is looking from the stern toward the bow. so top of the shaft goes to starboard .. engine is going to want to go counterclockwise if the cones are jammed. May take two people, one to hold the engine from turning and one to turn the shaft clockwise .. Make sure the shift lever is neutral or forward is OK too.. With the transmission in neutral, you should be able to turn the shaft by hand.. and the engine should turn without turning the shaft .. The clutch in the transmission is a pair of cones, one male and one female. More torque from the engine tries to engage the cones tighter and tighter.. holding the engine and turning the shaft clockwise should kinda unscrew the cones .. it may pop loose so don't lose knuckles when the end of the wrench rams into the side of the bulkhead.. Good luck..
Oh you had not mentioned that. You were hanging on the hook by the stern. There is indeed a possibility that water was pushed back up into a cylinder with the exhaust valve open. Do not try to turn the engine, water does not compress and either a piston or a rod may suffer the consequences. You may need to pull the injectors to flush the water out.
I have not seen a Yanmar 4JH series with glow plugs? The ones I've worked on all use an air pre-heater as opposed to actual glow plugs in each cylinder... If one suspects water in the cylinders then the injectors need to come out...
If its a possibility that a bent prop shaft / stuffing box is preventing the engine from turning ... disconnect the trans to propshaft coupler ... just disconnect and MOVE/pry the shaft aft by about 1/4" (may need to loosen the compression on the packing) and attempt to start the engine.
If with coupler disconnected engine readily starts, remove shaft for 're-straightening' or replace shaft.
If with coupler disconnected engine readily starts, remove shaft for 're-straightening' or replace shaft.
Yep and stern to in a mooring field with 5 foots seas is indeed "unusual"...
Still I would exhaust and eliminate the other troubleshooting steps first then yank the injectors. If the shaft can be spun by hand, then the starter should have no trouble cranking the motor. If the shaft has been made free (gear cones jammed etc.) or the shaft disconnected from the gear, and it still won't spin over, then definitely pull the injectors..
yep, i stand corrected... I do not know the age of the motor. almost all modern engines do use the preheater on the intake rather than glow plugs..
the injectors are only slightly more troublesome to remove than the glow plugs would be, but the injectors are the only choice on this motor...
also, to the OP... if you find water in any cylinder, no matter how much, its time for an oil change....
If you can turn the motor by hand (even with a wrench), this is not a hydraulic lock. If it was, the motor would not even budge. Guess how i know (;-).
With a full cylinder this is true but if the cylinder is only partially full then you can often rotate it partially. If you can make it a few revolutions then there is not a hydrolock....
the OP did not mention if he could turn it all the way around, but he did say it got very hard to turn... there could already be damage done, and the only way to tell if there was, or is water in a cylinder is to check, no matter how unlikely it may be.
it could just as well be something else, but before tearing in to the transmission or checking for a bent crank or rod, we must eliminate the easier stuff....
Update
Here's what I know today.
1. sucked 2 quarts of water out, then 6 quarts of oil, changed filter and oil
2. can make full turns on pulley with wrench easier now.
3. still think there's water in there, i can hear it. gonna pull injectors tonight.
4. had a friend watch, and I believe the shaft is not turning when the engine turns, so i'm in neutral. If clearing the cylinders doesn't do it, i'll disconnect the shaft too.
5. Correct, no glow plugs on this engine.
One question about pulling injectors, I think there is maybe a seal and a telflon heat protector in there when i pull it. Can i leave them and reuse for the short term to get the engine dried and running then replace?
Does napa have yanmar injector parts, like the teflon heat sheild? Or is this an internet/local diesel shop purchase...
I don't think i have a Yanmar dealer/shop here.
thank you all for the help!
Alex
So a late night last night...
Here's what I know today.
1. sucked 2 quarts of water out, then 6 quarts of oil, changed filter and oil
2. can make full turns on pulley with wrench easier now.
3. still think there's water in there, i can hear it. gonna pull injectors tonight.
4. had a friend watch, and I believe the shaft is not turning when the engine turns, so i'm in neutral. If clearing the cylinders doesn't do it, i'll disconnect the shaft too.
5. Correct, no glow plugs on this engine.
One question about pulling injectors, I think there is maybe a seal and a telflon heat protector in there when i pull it. Can i leave them and reuse for the short term to get the engine dried and running then replace?
Does napa have yanmar injector parts, like the teflon heat sheild? Or is this an internet/local diesel shop purchase...
I don't think i have a Yanmar dealer/shop here.
thank you all for the help!
Alex
Your making progress....
this is good!
Short term, just to insure the engine will run, you should be able to reuse all the parts, but for dependability and longevity I would replace all seals that are involved...
I doubt napa would have anything on the shelf, but any injector pump rebuild shop should have all the parts on hand.. no matter if they are authorized yanmar or not...
Also make sure you get all the parts/seals that are in the injector hole out... otherwise when it comes time to crank with the starter to blow the remaining drops of water out the injector holes, it could carry away any seals that are left in there..
Salt Water
If you sucked salt water into your yanmar you need to hurry and load it up with any type of oil or lube and the oil will flush the salt water out and will lube everything from salt getting into the engine parts.
This is what I was told long time ago any time salt water gets into a engine,a friend had his jet ski sink and salt water entered the engine and so he put tranny fluid into cylinders and cranked the engine and not start it just crank it over and over flushing with tranny fluid first than cheapest oil he could get and cranked a few times getting everything lubed with oil and flushing out the salt water.
Some one else same thing happen with sinking and did not and waited too long
and had to complete rebuild.
Nick
If you sucked salt water into your yanmar you need to hurry and load it up with any type of oil or lube and the oil will flush the salt water out and will lube everything from salt getting into the engine parts.
This is what I was told long time ago any time salt water gets into a engine,a friend had his jet ski sink and salt water entered the engine and so he put tranny fluid into cylinders and cranked the engine and not start it just crank it over and over flushing with tranny fluid first than cheapest oil he could get and cranked a few times getting everything lubed with oil and flushing out the salt water.
Some one else same thing happen with sinking and did not and waited too long
and had to complete rebuild.
Nick
It's Alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got it started!
For reference here is the timeline and what I did to get my diesel engine with salt water in it started again.
Sunday Oct. 19 7am: Caught anchor line in prop, and spun stern to 5 foot seas for 9 hours. This is when the water must have come in through the exhaust, filled the water muffler, and went up and over the mixing elbow and down into the exhaust manifold and cylinders.
Sunday Oct. 26: Unwrapped anchor line from prop shaft, engine wont start. Everyday from here on, I put a wrench on the motor pulley and turned the engine, to keep it moving.
Tuesday Oct 28: Oil change reveals 2 quarts of water in oil pan. Shop vac out water from water muffler which is where the water came in to try to relieve back pressure. Still wont start.
Thursday Oct 30: pull injectors, turn over engine and blow water out (mostly in last cylinder, closest to exhaust output), put back together and wont start. Remove the exhaust pipe from manifold and 2 cups of water came out, put back together and wont start. Took out injectors and load cylinders with Marvel Mystery Oil and turn motor with wrench.
Sunday Nov 2: Blow out Marvel Mystery Oil from cylinders reassemble, won't start, BUT, an hour later after cylinder drains(?) or diesel thins the mystery oil, it starts right up!!! Run it for 15 minutes.
Monday Nov 3: Oil change, oil looks like milkshake. Starts right up, runs for 20 minutes, do another oil/filter change. Oil looks less like milkshake but still pretty cloudy.
Wednesday Nov 5: Ran motor for 10 minutes, oil is looking much better.
I will continue to run the motor to get it hot, and do oil/filter changes until the oil looks like clean oil.
Thanks to everyone here that offered their help!
Alex
I got it started!
For reference here is the timeline and what I did to get my diesel engine with salt water in it started again.
Sunday Oct. 19 7am: Caught anchor line in prop, and spun stern to 5 foot seas for 9 hours. This is when the water must have come in through the exhaust, filled the water muffler, and went up and over the mixing elbow and down into the exhaust manifold and cylinders.
Sunday Oct. 26: Unwrapped anchor line from prop shaft, engine wont start. Everyday from here on, I put a wrench on the motor pulley and turned the engine, to keep it moving.
Tuesday Oct 28: Oil change reveals 2 quarts of water in oil pan. Shop vac out water from water muffler which is where the water came in to try to relieve back pressure. Still wont start.
Thursday Oct 30: pull injectors, turn over engine and blow water out (mostly in last cylinder, closest to exhaust output), put back together and wont start. Remove the exhaust pipe from manifold and 2 cups of water came out, put back together and wont start. Took out injectors and load cylinders with Marvel Mystery Oil and turn motor with wrench.
Sunday Nov 2: Blow out Marvel Mystery Oil from cylinders reassemble, won't start, BUT, an hour later after cylinder drains(?) or diesel thins the mystery oil, it starts right up!!! Run it for 15 minutes.
Monday Nov 3: Oil change, oil looks like milkshake. Starts right up, runs for 20 minutes, do another oil/filter change. Oil looks less like milkshake but still pretty cloudy.
Wednesday Nov 5: Ran motor for 10 minutes, oil is looking much better.
I will continue to run the motor to get it hot, and do oil/filter changes until the oil looks like clean oil.
Thanks to everyone here that offered their help!
Alex
Good Morning,
I only just now had the chance to read most of this thread. Thankfully, your engine is good to go but for a heuristic exercise here, could you tell us how it is that you lay 9 hours with your stern to 5-ft seas!, long enough to flood the engine exhaust system and even the engine itself? Don't you have a secondary anchor aboard? How did this happen?
Im glad to hear things went your way, you're a Lucky man! usually when salt water gets into a cylinder, severe damage results....
thanks for posting the results....