Yacht Brokers

BayMan

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Sep 12, 2012
203
Hunter 450 Unspecified
If my plans play out like I hope, this time next year I will be retired, downsized and living more on water than on land. I have been window shopping for awhile but will need to step that up soon. My question is about how helpful can a broker be in the process? Or is bringing one in only guarantee that one way or the other I will end up paying a commission to find something I could have found on my own?
 

kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
Seller pays the commission......just like a realtor I believe
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
You are going to pay a commission no matter what if you buy a brokered boat. The only difference is that the sellers broker has to split the commission with your buyers broker. Depending on size and price, a buyers broker can be the most important, and valuable decision you make. Start shopping for your broker now.
 

kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
You are going to pay a commission no matter what if you buy a brokered boat. The only difference is that the sellers broker has to split the commission with your buyers broker. Depending on size and price, a buyers broker can be the most important, and valuable decision you make. Start shopping for your broker now.
Are you saying that the buyer pays broker fees only from the inflated price to cover the sellers broker fee cost?
 
Jan 11, 2014
14,014
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Are you saying that the buyer pays broker fees only from the inflated price to cover the sellers broker fee cost?
Boat brokers work just like real estate brokers. They get a percentage of the sale price. If the listing broker sells the boat they get the whole commission. If a broker from another company helps to sell the boat then the commission is split. Yachtworld.com functions just like the multiple listing services that real estate agents use.

Many recommend having a buyer's broker. Even though the buyer's broker is paid by the seller, the buyer's broker works for you. They can provide advice and information that a seller's broker may not. It is also easier to work with one broker. Find a buyer's broker that you like and trust, tell him/her what you are looking for and then let them work.

A decent broker will earn his keep through advertising and marketing the boat and helping to negotiate the sale. The amount of effort they will put into the sale will depend on the final cost of the boat, certainly they will expend more effort to sell a $100K boat than to sell a $20K boat. In the first case they get a $10K commission, in the second only a $2K commission.

The value of the boat is the value of the boat regardless of the commission. If a seller expects to get a higher price to compensate for the commission, then the seller is going to wait a longer time to sell the boat. Sellers may opt to sell the boat without a broker in order to save the commission, but then they must be willing to do the marketing and be available to show the boat to a willing buyer.

I have recently purchased a boat through a broker and it found it to be a reasonable experience. Not only did I have some help negotiating part of the deal, the broker also took care registering the boat and arranging for a few necessary repairs.

As a result of that purchase I now have a boat on the market. I'll try to sell it myself for a while, but when it gets to be a PITA, I'll gladly pay a broker $2.5K to sell it for me, but I won't raise the price to pay the commission. I'll be paying the broker to do work that I don't have the time, desire, or skills to do.

If you're interested in a nice Sabre 30, check this website: www.sabre30forsale.com
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
Broker may/ may not be helpful to buyer.

Start shopping for surveyor. Best $ you will spend . Get recommendations , ask for a sample survey copy. Don't ask the listing broker or the seller. They do not have your interest at the top of the list.

Go with the surveyor. Ask questions take notes, take photos . You will know by the end of the day if the boat is acceptable and you will have found faults enuff to adjust the price or get the seller to improve the condition of the boat. Survey will not cost you anything in the end. May save you a gazillions heart aches if you walk away from a bad deal.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
5,072
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
When I bought this boat, I had a buyer's agent and he was a lifesaver. He flew to NY from WI and helped me immensely deal with the seller's broker, who I just could not deal with. As it was a cash purchase, he handled all the paperwork and kept the cash in escrow until everything was right. All this cost me a couple of meals and playing chauffeur from the airport to the boat and back, because he took his cut from the seller's broker.
PM me if you'd like his contact info; he's a great guy.
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Any buyers broker worth working with will know more about surveyors than you ever will and can guide the survey investigation. Your broker has industry connections. Your broker is your coach, your wingman, choose wisely.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,997
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
We can stipulate that the any boat for sale starts with an inflated price. But there is a market that finds the right price, and the selling broker gets his commission from that, not the asking price.
Brokers can be a tremendous asset. They know a lot. But like sales people in any business they are selling their inventory.
 

BayMan

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Sep 12, 2012
203
Hunter 450 Unspecified
I have a surveyor. Saved me from a soft deck issue once before.

I figured the buyer's broker would split the commission with the seller's broker. But if I buy an unbrokered boat from yacht world or similar place I would be paying it all in addition to the asking/selling price. I guess that is my real question- Is the broker going to have access to boats for sale that I simply do not? Or will he be looking in the same internet ads that I will be?
 
Jan 11, 2014
14,014
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I have a surveyor. Saved me from a soft deck issue once before.

I figured the buyer's broker would split the commission with the seller's broker. But if I buy an unbrokered boat from yacht world or similar place I would be paying it all in addition to the asking/selling price. I guess that is my real question- Is the broker going to have access to boats for sale that I simply do not? Or will he be looking in the same internet ads that I will be?
All boats on Yachtworld are brokered boats. Other sites may have brokered boats or not (like the listings on Sailboatowners.com).

Basically, the boats you see on Yachtworld are the same that the brokers see. However, brokers talk to each other and a broker may know of a boat coming to market before it appears on Yachtworld or the broker's listing. A seller may be more motivated (willing to accept a lower price) on a very quick sale because there is a cost to storing the boat while waiting for a buyer and the seller may want the money or want to get out from under the boat quickly.

When you make an offer on the boat you offer the price you're willing to pay and don't worry about the commission. That's the seller's problem. A $100K boat is a $100K boat regardless of whether it is sold by a broker or by an owner.

The broker adds value to the seller not the buyer, so that's why the seller pays. The value the broker adds is marketing and dealing with unreasonable buyers. The broker also serves as a buffer because selling a boat can be emotional for both the buyer and seller. When selling the broker not the owner gets to deal with all the tire kickers and can advise the seller about low ball offers.

Beyond the condition of a particular boat there are many factors that affect the price the seller is willing to take for the boat. Boat sales are seasonal. At least in the north, there aren't a lot of used boat sales from November to March. A seller may accept a lower offer on a boat to avoid paying for winter storage and insurance. Then there are distress sales, divorce, change in jobs, old age, financial concerns all play a factor and will affect the price the seller is willing to accept. Brokers will have access to this kind of information.

The advantage to a buyer's broker is that there is one person you will be dealing with although you may be looking at boats at many different brokerages. A good broker will help you understand the market and help you sort through the many variables that will make a boat the one for you. The buyer's broker can also send out an inquiry to other brokers indicating your interest in a particular boat and find them before they are advertised. If you are going to finance the boat, they can help you connect with appropriate financial institutions.

Both the seller's broker and the buyer's broker have a common goal, to sell a boat. The advantage to a good buyer's broker is that he can focus more on finding you a boat you want and will suit your needs where a seller's broker is more interested in selling the boat that he has listed.

So, if you are uncertain about what boat you want, then a finding a broker that you can work with is a good idea. If you know you want a particular boat model, i.e., a 1990-1995 Catalina 30, then a buyer's broker may not offer you much. If you want someone to help you sort through the options and give advice then you may want a broker. Just remember that the more you are willing to spend on the boat the more support and service you will get.
 

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,736
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Two points:
If you limit yourself to boats for sale by owner you are going to greatly reduce the number of boats to choose from.

Know that a "buyers" broker is not in it for you. They are in it for themselves. The more they can get you to pay, the more commission they earn.
 
Aug 3, 2010
150
Hunter 326 Charleston SC
One point to add is that a broker can search yacht world and see what similar boats have sold for vs. the asking price.
 
Jan 6, 2010
1,520
Bay,

A lot of good info/advice here from the guys to help you.

However, sometimes there's a caveat thrown in. When I put a contract on my C30, back then it was my first big boat purchase & I was naïve in dealing with the broker and surveyor. Not all brokers & surveyors are created equal. Most are well informed and a big help when buying.

On the flip side, my broker suggested I allow him to pick the surveyor for me. First mistake. When I got my survey, I was shocked. I had a list of items from my personal survey that I had questioned. Most of which never addressed. I was pretty irate & showed up unannounced at the surveyor's residence to discuss what I thought was a Mac Donald's drive thru survey.

Questioning him on the omitted items, he let slip that the broker told him to do a down-n-dirty survey, as I was hot to buy. This was a shocker. I told him in expletive terms that it was my check that paid him & he immediately re-survey my boat. I threatened him with contacting the National Assoc. of Marine Surveyors & a few others. In addition, I would look into whether this was considered fraud.

I got a complete survey the next day. I also informed the broker that he was liable. Years later, I found out the FBI brought them up on charges. I told the investigator of my experience with these two. Both surveyor & broker were sentenced for scams they were pulling on fake surveys done on larger yachts to manipulate price.

This hopefully will never happen to you, but be aware. You can also contact the insurance carrier, as they have a list of approved surveyors they use. So my advice is to ask around for good surveyors. You pick him.

CR
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
5,072
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Know that a "buyers" broker is not in it for you. They are in it for themselves. The more they can get you to pay, the more commission they earn.
Though the above statement may be literally true, a good buyer's agent is YOUR representative in this deal. If he does a good job for you, he will most likely get you as a seller's agent on this boat and again, as your buyer's agent on your next. Most of these guys are not used car or snake oil salesmen, being extremely knowledgeable, experienced and therefor very valuable in one of the larger acquisitions many of us make in a lifetime.