X2Power AGM battery

[Scott T-Bird]

So I made sort of an impulse purchase today, with some research involved. Looking for an AGM batt that would be convenient to find at a nearby store, I was coming up with X2Power batteries sold by Batteries+. It turns out they are sold exclusively by Batteries+. They are advertised as "Dual Purpose", which pretty much turned me off, as I was looking for deep cycle. But I looked at the specs and it seemed to be exactly what I was looking for.

This is my auxiliary battery. By that I mean, it is my exclusive start battery since I have DCP selector switch. It is also going to be my dedicated battery for the windlass. Lastly, I want it to be my auxiliary house battery if ever needed for that. My house batts are a pair of 4D AGM (good batteries) that are now going on their 7th year. I have no reason yet to think about replacing them, other than their age. I wanted the start/aux batt to be the same chemistry and deep cycle - and I want a sturdy back-up if I start to see problems with the house bank.

Looking into the manufacturer, (which is very difficult to find BTW), they are made by EnerSys (and are similar to Odyssey batteries reportedly). They are a new product it seems. Very little is actually reported about the batteries. Endorsements come from several professionals in the auto and marine (fishing) industries.

I paid $390 for a Grp 27 battery. What attracted me is 930 CCA, 1080 CA, 90aH (20hr test), 190 min reserve capacity (70% discharge). A similar sized Duracell AGM deep cycle was $160 less but the cranking amps are way, way lower. I couldn't see spending the money and not being satisfied. I was tempted to get the Grp 31 battery but the size would be way tight in the holder and I didn't want to take a chance that it wouldn't fit. Besides, I had a nagging feeling it would be overkill.

Anybody hear about these batteries? thoughts? I'll be a guinea pig if necessary!

 

[MikeHoncho]

Why not wire your windless to the already larger bank add another AGM to if needed and use a cheap flooded for your start battery?

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Why not wire your windless to the already larger bank add another AGM to if needed and use a cheap flooded for your start battery?

I found that the windlass was wired to the cheap SLA auxiliary battery by p.o. Basically, I don't want the windlass on the house bank, I don't want a cheap FLA start battery. I want an AGM start battery that can also serve the windlass (and be a suitable reserve), and I don't want to add a third house battery (and don't have the room for it either) that isn't compatible in age and size with the house bank. BTW, the SLA that I took out seems to be in perfectly fine condition. It just needs a use somewhere now.

 

[Maine Sail]

I found that the windlass was wired to the cheap SLA auxiliary battery by p.o. Basically, I don't want the windlass on the house bank, I don't want a cheap FLA start battery.

Why not?

I want an AGM start battery that can also serve the windlass (and be a suitable reserve), Why?

 

[MikeHoncho]

Because he doesn’t want, doesn’t want, doesn’t want…

 

[FastOlson]

Because he doesn’t want, doesn’t want, doesn’t want…

And it's our internet-remote-expert task to change a stranger's mind, about specifics & details that we know little about.....!


(Hope Mike does not take offense, but I fall into this situation all the time.)

 

[MikeHoncho]

No offense taken and to be fair he didn't ask for input on his design just a battery. I'm not claiming I have a higher level of knowledge pertaining to battery systems but I have slept at a Holiday Inn (alot) and I did just do a bunch of research myself for my system. Running a windlass off of a single battery that is also the starter when you have a larger bank seems logical but again, not the question of the OP.

To be honest, I would actually like to know why. There could be a completely logical reason that I might learn something from.

 

[Maine Sail]

Anybody hear about these batteries? thoughts? I'll be a guinea pig if necessary!

those batteries are made by Enersys, the parent company of both Northstar and Odyssey. With firefly now gone from the US market these are by far one of the best AGM batteries you can buy. Batteries plus is doing nothing more than slapping a sticker on that battery. You can buy them for less with the Northstar or Odyssey sticker on them but if that's was local and close by all means go for it.. I still don't understand why you wouldn't run the winldass off the house bank. It has way more current, the winldass will perform better and you don't run the risk of killing your start battery..TPPL AGM batteries make great windlass and thruster banks but you are trying to share it as a starting /windlass bank not build a dedicated bank..

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Good comments and questions. I think it is a matter of philosophy. I've never liked the idea of a secondary battery being a weak sister to the house bank. I think of the battery sources as a system that is integrated and has specific tasks. That is why I want a Start battery isolated from the house bank. My instinct tells me not to buy a weak sister for a start battery. I also think that if I am going to buy a good battery, then I should put it to work, not just let it sit there with very little purpose. I don't consider starting the engine as very much work for a good battery. Therefore, I figure that putting the windlass on the start battery is a good way to spread the load. For one thing, I'd rather not have a windlass that fails to function after a weekend using the house loads. Secondly, our windlass doesn't really see a lot of hard work, I think. It was directly cabled to a small SLA battery that was not deep cycle to begin with (it wasn't running off the house bank) and I never had any issues. Despite the recommendation to run it from the house bank, I would rather put it on it's own dedicated battery, and I decided that I would get a Start battery that could handle the windlass without any problem. If my plan doesn't work out, I can always use the house bank to run the windlass and start the engine anyway! I'll admit that I don't have a good feel for how much current the windlass requires. Based on the small cable sizes (4 awg?), I pretty much figured that the load isn't all that much and that the battery I selected would have no problem with the load. My windlass is the standard Catalina installation for the older 320's. I have it in mind that I might want to upgrade my windlass sometime to the newer model they use - one that can handle rope & chain, not just rope.

I didn't really consider the Odyssey brand. I know they come from the same maker and a Grp 27 Odyssey is almost identical (less CCA, though) and is priced about $40 less in our area at Autozone. I didn't look very hard but I don't see a location as convenient as Batteries+. I'll also admit that the marketing for the X2 Power grabbed my attention, so there you have it!

@Maine Sail 's endorsement of the battery gives me peace of mind!

 

[Stu Jackson]

I think it is a matter of philosophy. I've never liked the idea of a secondary battery being a weak sister to the house bank. I think of the battery sources as a system that is integrated and has specific tasks. That is why I want a Start battery isolated from the house bank. My instinct tells me not to buy a weak sister for a start battery. I also think that if I am going to buy a good battery, then I should put it to work, not just let it sit there with very little purpose. I don't consider starting the engine as very much work for a good battery. Therefore, I figure that putting the windlass on the start battery is a good way to spread the load. For one thing, I'd rather not have a windlass that fails to function after a weekend using the house loads. Secondly, our windlass doesn't really see a lot of hard work, I think. It was directly cabled to a small SLA battery that was not deep cycle to begin with (it wasn't running off the house bank) and I never had any issues. Despite the recommendation to run it from the house bank, I would rather put it on it's own dedicated battery, and I decided that I would get a Start battery that could handle the windlass without any problem. If my plan doesn't work out, I can always use the house bank to run the windlass and start the engine anyway!

Wow, Scotty, there seem to be a bunch of built-in inconsistencies in your "philosophy."
"...and has specific tasks." Doesn't this mean that instead of a house bank, you should have a specific fridge bank, and a specific lights bank and a specific electronics bank, etc.?
"...putting the windlass on the start battery is a good way to spread the load." What load are you spreading? I'm sure you're aware that the larger a load the best it is served by the larger a bank. In your "solution" you are using what is most likely the largest DC load on your boat and attaching it to the smallest battery bank. Why?
"...I can always use the house bank to run the windlass and start the engine anyway!" But, sputter, that is the entire point of connecting the windlass to the house bank to begin with. You use your start bank to start the engine, the alternator is producing power directly to your house bank, NOT the start bank except via your ACR, and your windlass is powered. What's so hard?
"...then I should put it to work, not just let it sit there with very little purpose..." You ARE using it to start your engine. The entire reason you bought and separated it out as the start bank was to avoid having to use your house bank to start the engine in case the house bank got drained. But once your engine is started, the drained house bank is being filled up directly from the alternator.
Just another case of your "philosophy" going against Maine Sail's decades old advice.
Good luck.

 

[BarryL]

Hey,

On my boat (first one with a windlass) the engine must be running for the windlass to work. Well the engine switch must be ON, but if the engine isn't running I get the oil pressure alarm so I might as well run the engine. So with the engine on and charging the batteries it doesn't seem to really matter which bank the windlass is connected too.

Barry

 

[Hello Below]

My question is, does it really matter if it is the house bank or auxiliary/start/reserve battery feeding the windlass?
The diesel is normally up and running when employing a windlass. Scott, you once posted that: “Found out from the Survey Say Alternator is Hamilton-Ferris Powermax 125 Amp, external regulator is Balmar 3-phase (MC-614 or similar).” And “The Powermax seems to advertise "highest output at idle speeds".”
More Alternator Questions
So with the diesel running at 1400 RPM, the Powermax will be providing most if not all of the current needed to power the windlass. According to the Powermax website it will be putting out approximately 100A. Very little of the current will be sourced from the battery.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Here's a looong Maine Sail answer to why use the house bank for the windlass, from our C34 Forum:

Anchor Windlass- Which Battery

Anchor Windlass- Which Battery

c34.org

 

[Scott T-Bird]

My question is, does it really matter if it is the house bank or auxiliary/start/reserve battery feeding the windlass?

Right, I agree, and as Barry says I don't operate the windlass until the engine is running (unless I'm sailing off anchor). From my experience so far, the windlass isn't a very substantial load. A small SLA battery had no trouble with it in the past. I simply bought a better than average battery for starting and assigned the windlass to it. I don't know why this should be controversial!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Here's a looong Maine Sail answer to why use the house bank for the windlass, from our C34 Forum:

Anchor Windlass- Which Battery

Anchor Windlass- Which Battery

c34.org

That's a nice source ... still, not worried. That's why I wanted this deep cycle battery, so I could be confident that it will be suitable for the windlass load, which is really pretty small in my case.

Here's a quote from the thread ... "Many of my customers are also world cruisers so they are not always anchoring in 10' of water where even a garden tractor battery might work." Yep, we routinely anchor in 10' of water ... usually less.

And then there was this ... "There are many ways to skin the cat and each can do what works for them. I would not personally wire a windlass to a starting battery unless it was TPPL AGM and had a latching relay to use available alternator power." So, what's the problem?

 

[Stu Jackson]

I don't know why this should be controversial!

Not controversial at all. Simply an option whereas THE most respected name in boating electrical systems offers a multitude of other reasons. Simple.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

There was some discussion about the allowable voltage drop and the wiring size. I may consider upgrading the cables, which seem a bit small to me. That's a project for another time. I'd like to find out more about my windlass, or perhaps the windlass that I may prefer to install in replacement.

 

[MikeHoncho]

There was some discussion about the allowable voltage drop and the wiring size. I may consider upgrading the cables, which seem a bit small to me. That's a project for another time. I'd like to find out more about my windlass, or perhaps the windlass that I may prefer to install in replacement.

How long is the run? 4awg seems small even with a short one.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

It does seem small. The battery is located just aft of the bulkhead separating the saloon from the v-berth. That said, it could be 15 to 20' round trip.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

those batteries are made by Enersys, the parent company of both Northstar and Odyssey. With firefly now gone from the US market these are by far one of the best AGM batteries you can buy. Batteries plus is doing nothing more than slapping a sticker on that battery. You can buy them for less with the Northstar or Odyssey sticker on them but if that's was local and close by all means go for it.. I still don't understand why you wouldn't run the winldass off the house bank. It has way more current, the winldass will perform better and you don't run the risk of killing your start battery..TPPL AGM batteries make great windlass and thruster banks but you are trying to share it as a starting /windlass bank not build a dedicated bank..

I get it that X2Power is just a sticker on the Enersys product but it doesn't appear that they all have exactly the same specifications. Perhaps each one puts their own spin on their published specs? The Odyssey Grp 27 AGM that I can find available is less expensive and the specs are inferior, not by a lot, but enough to suggest a real difference. It doesn't appear to be the same battery as the X2 that I bought. OTOH, the source I found for Northstar has 3 grp 27 TPPL AGM batt models that have nearly identical published specs and the pictures of the batteries look nearly indistinguishable from my X2. There is a 27, a 27F and a 27M. The first 2 are priced at $390, only the 27M is priced at $420. The only differences that I could discern is only the 27M is advertised for marine AND it has a pair of terminal studs for pos and neg, which just happens to match the configuration that I have on my X2. As far as I can tell, the X2 that I bought (I just realized that mine is also labelled "27M") is identical to the Northstar 27M and mine was priced $30 less than the Northstar. This was based on the first website where a Northstar battery outlet popped up on my screen - "Battery Guys".

So, based on this information, I'm still very happy about my outcome. BTW, I declined the recommended 6/12V 2A Automatic Maintainer.