Have wrinkles on my main that run at a 45 degree angle to the mast. (wrinkle, mast and boom make a triangle shape. Not sure if more tension tension on halyard would do the trick or if my mast is not straight, or something else? Thoughts?
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Pat, loosen your outhaul a tad and put more
tension on the halyard. Before we used to throw our weight on the halyards to tighten them, now with lines leading aft we use our cockpit winches. The luff of a sail and the halyards gain some elasticity over time and it may be our tendency to under tighten them.
tension on the halyard. Before we used to throw our weight on the halyards to tighten them, now with lines leading aft we use our cockpit winches. The luff of a sail and the halyards gain some elasticity over time and it may be our tendency to under tighten them.
Me too, Pat
I noticed just the same issue last week and, try as I might, didn't manage to get it out. Next time, I'll try Benny's idea. Loosen outhaul; tighten halyard. It feels like that should get the wrinkles more towards vertical.
I noticed just the same issue last week and, try as I might, didn't manage to get it out. Next time, I'll try Benny's idea. Loosen outhaul; tighten halyard. It feels like that should get the wrinkles more towards vertical.
Topping Lift?
Do you have a boom kicker or topping lift holding the aft end of the boom up? I agree with more halyard tension plus it looks like there is not enough tension on the leach cause the aft end of the boom is too high.
Do you have a boom kicker or topping lift holding the aft end of the boom up? I agree with more halyard tension plus it looks like there is not enough tension on the leach cause the aft end of the boom is too high.
Looks like: Too much outhaul
and not enough main halyard tension (changes based on wind speed are usually required, which is why the outhaul can (or should Catalina is notorious for jammed outhauls) exists and why the cunningham was invented to avoid having to re-tension the main halyard as well as to move draft forward. Glad you got the picture posted - not too hard once ya get the hang of it. Stu
and not enough main halyard tension (changes based on wind speed are usually required, which is why the outhaul can (or should Catalina is notorious for jammed outhauls) exists and why the cunningham was invented to avoid having to re-tension the main halyard as well as to move draft forward. Glad you got the picture posted - not too hard once ya get the hang of it. Stu
Wrinkles
Pat: A picture is worth "almost" a thousand words. Instead of trying to figure out the problem lets start from the beginning. As Benny mentioned, you want all your mainsail trim controls loose before you raise the main. So many sailors don't bother loosening the controls when they drop the mainsail - they just want to get it down and then they forget about it and it causes problems -like yours - when they go to raise it. Additionally, with the older Catalina's, the outhaul is frozen in place and it is like the broken clock that is right twice a day. In other words, the setting is correct for some point of sail and wind condition but wrong for all other situations. Make sure your outhaul is working as it is a very importnat control. It controls the bottom 2/3 of the sail which is exactly where your problem is. Next time you raise the main make sure everything (outhaul, boom vang, main sheet, cunningham (if you have one)) is loose. Crank on the halyard but not to the extent you are stretching the sail - all you want is for the wrinkles or scallops to disapear. Once you get to to the full full hoist point that is appropriate for your boat, and it might take a few tries to get it right, you want to mark the halyard with a piece of black tape and then put another one on the mast. That is your reference point for future hoists. The next thing you want to do is release the topping lift. I wish I had a buck ($$$) for all the sailors I've seen sailing with the topping lift tight so don't be one of those skippers. Once you get the halyard right don't mess with it. Install a cunningham. It is much easier to work with. Hopefully, these suggestions will solve your problem. If it does please get back with us. So many times we offer suggestions and never hear back with the results.
Pat: A picture is worth "almost" a thousand words. Instead of trying to figure out the problem lets start from the beginning. As Benny mentioned, you want all your mainsail trim controls loose before you raise the main. So many sailors don't bother loosening the controls when they drop the mainsail - they just want to get it down and then they forget about it and it causes problems -like yours - when they go to raise it. Additionally, with the older Catalina's, the outhaul is frozen in place and it is like the broken clock that is right twice a day. In other words, the setting is correct for some point of sail and wind condition but wrong for all other situations. Make sure your outhaul is working as it is a very importnat control. It controls the bottom 2/3 of the sail which is exactly where your problem is. Next time you raise the main make sure everything (outhaul, boom vang, main sheet, cunningham (if you have one)) is loose. Crank on the halyard but not to the extent you are stretching the sail - all you want is for the wrinkles or scallops to disapear. Once you get to to the full full hoist point that is appropriate for your boat, and it might take a few tries to get it right, you want to mark the halyard with a piece of black tape and then put another one on the mast. That is your reference point for future hoists. The next thing you want to do is release the topping lift. I wish I had a buck ($$$) for all the sailors I've seen sailing with the topping lift tight so don't be one of those skippers. Once you get the halyard right don't mess with it. Install a cunningham. It is much easier to work with. Hopefully, these suggestions will solve your problem. If it does please get back with us. So many times we offer suggestions and never hear back with the results.
looks like a hard vang too high problem to me.
How else would the boom be so nice and parallel to the deck? Vic "Seven"
How else would the boom be so nice and parallel to the deck? Vic "Seven"
Tired sail
Pat- Can you tell us how old your main sail is? It looks pretty tired to me. You might be able to get the wrinkles out but I don't think your sail shape would be proper for the prevailing wind speed which looks to be about 10 knots. (just a guess) I'm curious about your results next time out. Please let us know what happens.
Pat- Can you tell us how old your main sail is? It looks pretty tired to me. You might be able to get the wrinkles out but I don't think your sail shape would be proper for the prevailing wind speed which looks to be about 10 knots. (just a guess) I'm curious about your results next time out. Please let us know what happens.
Thanks for the suggestions guys
I'll try the outhaul first - I remember it being stiff to say the least. I had everything else loose to start with and I got in the habit of releasing the topping lift so that was not it. I did notice however upon returning to the dock that my hard vang was also loose. I didn't think this would make a difference on a reach but maybe it was oldoing up the boom too high. I also like the idea of marking the halyard (after I get it right). Lastly I can add a cunningham after I try the other suggestions. The sail may be 11 years old. I am 2nd or 3rd owner but they didn't seem really beat up and was not mentioned on the survey almost two years ago. I don't think they take as much a beating here on the Graet Lakes as they do elsewhere. I also had both sails reconditioned at Sail Care this past winter. Thanks again for the sailing lessons. I'll try and get back by next week at the latest.
I'll try the outhaul first - I remember it being stiff to say the least. I had everything else loose to start with and I got in the habit of releasing the topping lift so that was not it. I did notice however upon returning to the dock that my hard vang was also loose. I didn't think this would make a difference on a reach but maybe it was oldoing up the boom too high. I also like the idea of marking the halyard (after I get it right). Lastly I can add a cunningham after I try the other suggestions. The sail may be 11 years old. I am 2nd or 3rd owner but they didn't seem really beat up and was not mentioned on the survey almost two years ago. I don't think they take as much a beating here on the Graet Lakes as they do elsewhere. I also had both sails reconditioned at Sail Care this past winter. Thanks again for the sailing lessons. I'll try and get back by next week at the latest.
Bolt rope shrinking
Dave, for those who are members of their Catalina Associations and get Mainsheet magazine, the Aug 2006 issue had a Tech Notes article about that very subject, C34 section. Sorry, I don't have it online.
Dave, for those who are members of their Catalina Associations and get Mainsheet magazine, the Aug 2006 issue had a Tech Notes article about that very subject, C34 section. Sorry, I don't have it online.
Shrinking
I've never heard of a bolt rope shrinking but apparently they do based on Stu's comments. I've been sailing boats since I was 10 years old and have owned some pretty old sails and never noticed the bolt rope shrinking. I'm almost positive the problem is with the outhaul. You can duplicate his sail condition with a handkerchief. You need 3 hands to do it. Fold the handkerchief in a triangle - one hand goes to the head, the other to the tack and with the other hand pull on the clew. You'll see the wrinkles appear just as they are in his picture. To beginners and intermediates - actually everyone - when you drop your mainsail at the end of your sailing day be sure all controls are loose especially the outhaul. Slack off the jib halyard slightly also.
I've never heard of a bolt rope shrinking but apparently they do based on Stu's comments. I've been sailing boats since I was 10 years old and have owned some pretty old sails and never noticed the bolt rope shrinking. I'm almost positive the problem is with the outhaul. You can duplicate his sail condition with a handkerchief. You need 3 hands to do it. Fold the handkerchief in a triangle - one hand goes to the head, the other to the tack and with the other hand pull on the clew. You'll see the wrinkles appear just as they are in his picture. To beginners and intermediates - actually everyone - when you drop your mainsail at the end of your sailing day be sure all controls are loose especially the outhaul. Slack off the jib halyard slightly also.
Maybe just stayed the same length
I have no experience on which to base this but I think I agree with Don. I doubt the bolt rope shrunk. That just seems counter-intuitive to me. Again, no experience. But what does make sense to me is that the bolt rope may well have stayed the same length but the age of the sail may have caused enough stretch that the relative length of the bolt rope is now shorter than the length of the sail. Hence, "the bolt rope shrunk."
I have no experience on which to base this but I think I agree with Don. I doubt the bolt rope shrunk. That just seems counter-intuitive to me. Again, no experience. But what does make sense to me is that the bolt rope may well have stayed the same length but the age of the sail may have caused enough stretch that the relative length of the bolt rope is now shorter than the length of the sail. Hence, "the bolt rope shrunk."
An example for Don
see link. The main sail pictures of bolt rope shrinkage examples sure look like Pat's.
see link. The main sail pictures of bolt rope shrinkage examples sure look like Pat's.
Same experience with my old mains.
The bolt rope shrunk on the old (20 year) mainsail on my C&C Shark 24. The main looked exactly like those in the pictures posted. I bought new sails and started winning races. Then on my G-26 which I bought in 2000 I experienced the same thing - bolt rope had shrunk and mainsail looked like those in your pictures. Same thing - bought new sails in 2001 and took the fleet trophy for 5 years in a row. Cheers,
The bolt rope shrunk on the old (20 year) mainsail on my C&C Shark 24. The main looked exactly like those in the pictures posted. I bought new sails and started winning races. Then on my G-26 which I bought in 2000 I experienced the same thing - bolt rope had shrunk and mainsail looked like those in your pictures. Same thing - bought new sails in 2001 and took the fleet trophy for 5 years in a row. Cheers,
Example
Monty Miller: Well, we learn something new every day here on the sail trim forum - shrinkage of 8" to 10" = wow!! I hope we have solved Pat's (Chicago) problem. I hope his fix is as easy as a stuck outhaul. That fix is as simple as installing an external outhaul, which works better anyway.
Monty Miller: Well, we learn something new every day here on the sail trim forum - shrinkage of 8" to 10" = wow!! I hope we have solved Pat's (Chicago) problem. I hope his fix is as easy as a stuck outhaul. That fix is as simple as installing an external outhaul, which works better anyway.
Mainsail wrinkles
I would have thought that when you loosened the vang, the main sheet and the outhaul, that the topping lift would also be loosened and not shortened until ready to drop sail. Also, slacking the the lazy jacks, if any, leaves the sail and boom free to find their correct positions. When dropping the main, I ease the vang and the main sheet, shorten the topping lift and restore the lazy jacks to their "normal" positions. Seems to work. Bill Coxe, O40 Kukulcán, New London, CT
I would have thought that when you loosened the vang, the main sheet and the outhaul, that the topping lift would also be loosened and not shortened until ready to drop sail. Also, slacking the the lazy jacks, if any, leaves the sail and boom free to find their correct positions. When dropping the main, I ease the vang and the main sheet, shorten the topping lift and restore the lazy jacks to their "normal" positions. Seems to work. Bill Coxe, O40 Kukulcán, New London, CT
Mast Pre-bend...
A few years ago, a friend of mine bought a new main from an offshore sailmaker. This required him to provide all the measurements, which he did trying to follow the template provided by the loft. He got a nice new main some time later and was generally happy with the price and quality. Yet, he, too had hard-to-get-rid-of wrinkles in the main. Try as we might with luff and cunningham adjustments, outhaul adjustments, vang adjustments, we just couldn't get rid of all those wrinkles. Some time later, this friend adjust the tension in his forestay and loosened the backstay somewhat. Bingo, wrinkles gone. His off the shelf main just had not been cut to fit a mast with pre-bend in it. I think the lesson here is having a professional sailmaker take measurements of your particular boat when buying a new main if you have any kind of peculiar mast set up.
A few years ago, a friend of mine bought a new main from an offshore sailmaker. This required him to provide all the measurements, which he did trying to follow the template provided by the loft. He got a nice new main some time later and was generally happy with the price and quality. Yet, he, too had hard-to-get-rid-of wrinkles in the main. Try as we might with luff and cunningham adjustments, outhaul adjustments, vang adjustments, we just couldn't get rid of all those wrinkles. Some time later, this friend adjust the tension in his forestay and loosened the backstay somewhat. Bingo, wrinkles gone. His off the shelf main just had not been cut to fit a mast with pre-bend in it. I think the lesson here is having a professional sailmaker take measurements of your particular boat when buying a new main if you have any kind of peculiar mast set up.
There are sailmakers...
...and there are sailmakers and they are certainly not all equal. Building a main without knowing the amount of prebend is like building your house in sand, you could get lucky,...or not. Altering the length of the forestay will have no affect on sail shape. All that does is change the mast rake which will affect performance. There are many possible causes of luff wrinkles not the least of which is a mast which doesn't match the luff curve built into the sail.
...and there are sailmakers and they are certainly not all equal. Building a main without knowing the amount of prebend is like building your house in sand, you could get lucky,...or not. Altering the length of the forestay will have no affect on sail shape. All that does is change the mast rake which will affect performance. There are many possible causes of luff wrinkles not the least of which is a mast which doesn't match the luff curve built into the sail.
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