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Who cares !?...really.
I do know that at The AC Sail Expo beneteau was one of the few boat manufactures that 'made' you take off your boat shoes to veiw a boat. I didn't have any other boat manufacturer make me take off clean dry and OBVIOUS boat shoes. Now, I understand the reason for removing shoes, But this is an indoor boat show where I'm wearing top of the line 'brand new' Sperry's (dry and clean and just bought). I said something about it and they were like " excuse' moi..." so I take off my boat shoes and what do you know !???!?!?!.....These damn beneteaus have PLASTIC "FAUX" Teak Floors !?!?!?.....I could see if they were Hinckleys or Sabres or Tartens.......or even Beneteaus with REAL Teak and Holly floors..... BUT NO !.....These pompous beneteau dealers are the only manufacturers to make me take off my Brand new Boat shoes to walk on their Gxx Damned PLASTIC floors.....that peeves me more than other things... ;^) If I was going to buy a French boat it would *definitely* be a Jeanneau. Oh.,....and rodney....before you talk to much about Vietnam, remember it was originally the French that let that 'colony' slip through their hands into a brutal slaughtering communistic dictatorship. But then again.....I guess thats ok, if thats the way you like it. Signed by "basically" a liberal, peace loving guy. But I do know REALITY, and knowing there are times when you must make a stand.
I do know that at The AC Sail Expo beneteau was one of the few boat manufactures that 'made' you take off your boat shoes to veiw a boat. I didn't have any other boat manufacturer make me take off clean dry and OBVIOUS boat shoes. Now, I understand the reason for removing shoes, But this is an indoor boat show where I'm wearing top of the line 'brand new' Sperry's (dry and clean and just bought). I said something about it and they were like " excuse' moi..." so I take off my boat shoes and what do you know !???!?!?!.....These damn beneteaus have PLASTIC "FAUX" Teak Floors !?!?!?.....I could see if they were Hinckleys or Sabres or Tartens.......or even Beneteaus with REAL Teak and Holly floors..... BUT NO !.....These pompous beneteau dealers are the only manufacturers to make me take off my Brand new Boat shoes to walk on their Gxx Damned PLASTIC floors.....that peeves me more than other things... ;^) If I was going to buy a French boat it would *definitely* be a Jeanneau. Oh.,....and rodney....before you talk to much about Vietnam, remember it was originally the French that let that 'colony' slip through their hands into a brutal slaughtering communistic dictatorship. But then again.....I guess thats ok, if thats the way you like it. Signed by "basically" a liberal, peace loving guy. But I do know REALITY, and knowing there are times when you must make a stand.
Yes I knew that.
But they still have two different design teams, & dealers networks, etc, etc. So for all practical purposes a much different boat to me.
But they still have two different design teams, & dealers networks, etc, etc. So for all practical purposes a much different boat to me.
New Boat Shoes Have Grit
Removing boat shoes seem to be the norm for boat shoes that I have attended . . .
Removing boat shoes seem to be the norm for boat shoes that I have attended . . .
Oh PUHleeze !..The boat shoes didn't have any grit
And no other manufacturers at the indoor show required it (not of obvious boat shoes) . And ANYWAY, they have PLASTIC floor boards on a lot of the newer benetaiues. THAT is why I think it was such a ridiculous request. I made a comment about wearing boat shoes to the bloated boat salesman sitting in the cockpit. He says I had to take them off.....ok, then I went below and saw the PLASTIC FLOORS. And he says " Well we are going to plastic floors because thats what people want"..... (Huh?!? ....now THAT is a ridiculous statemnet !!) And then he says "its extreemly durable and won't scratch and blah, blah, blah" I immediately shot back " Then why in the hell are you worried about my boat shoes for !?!?)....He just sat there blabbering and stammering , foolishly not knowing what to say. They don't tell you that its another way for them to cheap out on their boats. It was the French boats manufacturers that are fighting "tooth and nail" going to (superior) lead ballast in their keels....its either a much more expensive (but better) option or you can't even get lead keels (Jenneau) So don't give me the "grit" argument. In fact, I think it was 100 times worse following someone else with obviously horrendous foot odor. I smelt this guy 20 feet in front of me. I can still recall going onto a boat he had left 10 minutes before and walking into the front berth and it still smelt like his stinky feet....(you all know the smell......it smells like old bad popcorn....Blech...;-P )
And no other manufacturers at the indoor show required it (not of obvious boat shoes) . And ANYWAY, they have PLASTIC floor boards on a lot of the newer benetaiues. THAT is why I think it was such a ridiculous request. I made a comment about wearing boat shoes to the bloated boat salesman sitting in the cockpit. He says I had to take them off.....ok, then I went below and saw the PLASTIC FLOORS. And he says " Well we are going to plastic floors because thats what people want"..... (Huh?!? ....now THAT is a ridiculous statemnet !!) And then he says "its extreemly durable and won't scratch and blah, blah, blah" I immediately shot back " Then why in the hell are you worried about my boat shoes for !?!?)....He just sat there blabbering and stammering , foolishly not knowing what to say. They don't tell you that its another way for them to cheap out on their boats. It was the French boats manufacturers that are fighting "tooth and nail" going to (superior) lead ballast in their keels....its either a much more expensive (but better) option or you can't even get lead keels (Jenneau) So don't give me the "grit" argument. In fact, I think it was 100 times worse following someone else with obviously horrendous foot odor. I smelt this guy 20 feet in front of me. I can still recall going onto a boat he had left 10 minutes before and walking into the front berth and it still smelt like his stinky feet....(you all know the smell......it smells like old bad popcorn....Blech...;-P )
Some Dealers Provide Slip-on "Booties"
At boat shows where there is high volume traffic most dealers are astute enough to provide slip-on booties for boarding their boats. This is much easier for the customer than sitting down and undoing the shoelaces and then redoing it all again. Also, it nearly eliminates problems and hassle with the sales staff asking customers to do something with their shoes and takes fewer square feet of expensive rented retail space.
At boat shows where there is high volume traffic most dealers are astute enough to provide slip-on booties for boarding their boats. This is much easier for the customer than sitting down and undoing the shoelaces and then redoing it all again. Also, it nearly eliminates problems and hassle with the sales staff asking customers to do something with their shoes and takes fewer square feet of expensive rented retail space.
get what you need
Don, foreign affairs have very little to do with buying a boat. Besides, I believe Benetaus are made in SC now days. This is why they have a plastic floor! After comparing both the Benetaus and Hunters, Benetaus get my vote from a design and quality perspective.
Don, foreign affairs have very little to do with buying a boat. Besides, I believe Benetaus are made in SC now days. This is why they have a plastic floor! After comparing both the Benetaus and Hunters, Benetaus get my vote from a design and quality perspective.
weatherhelm?
Dear Weatherhelm (why do people hide behind such names?), Are foreign affairs an important factor in any purchase? I suppose that depends on how much you “care? Perhaps if some terrorists had killed 3000 people within 50 miles of your home you might “care” a little more. Perhaps if your son or daughter was in the military and about to go off to war, you might “care” a little more. Perhaps if you lived in the USA or one of it’s “faithful” allies, you might care a little more. (Is there a “North Hero”?, or is it another name to hide behind?) Weatherhelm, the world is getting smaller every day. We can no longer say “who cares what they’re doing over there". What's this got to do with sailing? Friends, if some tyrant starts tossing nukes, this world and the waters we sail on could become a very different place... I care!
Dear Weatherhelm (why do people hide behind such names?), Are foreign affairs an important factor in any purchase? I suppose that depends on how much you “care? Perhaps if some terrorists had killed 3000 people within 50 miles of your home you might “care” a little more. Perhaps if your son or daughter was in the military and about to go off to war, you might “care” a little more. Perhaps if you lived in the USA or one of it’s “faithful” allies, you might care a little more. (Is there a “North Hero”?, or is it another name to hide behind?) Weatherhelm, the world is getting smaller every day. We can no longer say “who cares what they’re doing over there". What's this got to do with sailing? Friends, if some tyrant starts tossing nukes, this world and the waters we sail on could become a very different place... I care!
Fair points
Don makes some fair points. You all might remember that after 9/11 light aircraft owners / renters were grounded for a time. The investment in that equipment and the recreation associated is very similar to sailing. Imagine the impact to boating in general if the acts had come from the water rather than the air. We tend, unfortunately to react in a regulatory manner to the current issues. If you think that another event could not impact your investment in sailing, you are mistaken. Politically, the dollar has a lot of power. Unfortunately, we are less able to coordinate and rally behind that kind of pressure. I'm not happy about the short term prospects or the alternatives. I do know that if I were circumnavigating right now that I would not be going anywhere near Yemen and the middle east. So, South Africa it would be and getting back to the Med as part of the excursion would be tough. Should not be this way. That all said, buying political can get pretty difficult, because the world is smaller, and half the time you don't know where something is made or the real impact of your purchase. I love Paris, but I won't be going for awhile (my way of saying I'm dissapointed). And by the way, if you want them to really notice, just empty the aircraft flying into the country for a couple of months. Empty AirBuses are a lot more visible than a few unsold Beneteaus. So yes, this is about sailing, and a lot of other things we do as we pursue our freedom to recreate as we choose. We have restrictions in the bay area regarding proximity to airports and in San Diego regarding Navy ships that already effect our sailing. What would happen if we could no longer sail under a bridge? It matters. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Don makes some fair points. You all might remember that after 9/11 light aircraft owners / renters were grounded for a time. The investment in that equipment and the recreation associated is very similar to sailing. Imagine the impact to boating in general if the acts had come from the water rather than the air. We tend, unfortunately to react in a regulatory manner to the current issues. If you think that another event could not impact your investment in sailing, you are mistaken. Politically, the dollar has a lot of power. Unfortunately, we are less able to coordinate and rally behind that kind of pressure. I'm not happy about the short term prospects or the alternatives. I do know that if I were circumnavigating right now that I would not be going anywhere near Yemen and the middle east. So, South Africa it would be and getting back to the Med as part of the excursion would be tough. Should not be this way. That all said, buying political can get pretty difficult, because the world is smaller, and half the time you don't know where something is made or the real impact of your purchase. I love Paris, but I won't be going for awhile (my way of saying I'm dissapointed). And by the way, if you want them to really notice, just empty the aircraft flying into the country for a couple of months. Empty AirBuses are a lot more visible than a few unsold Beneteaus. So yes, this is about sailing, and a lot of other things we do as we pursue our freedom to recreate as we choose. We have restrictions in the bay area regarding proximity to airports and in San Diego regarding Navy ships that already effect our sailing. What would happen if we could no longer sail under a bridge? It matters. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Wow...Billy thats harsh
Not that I totally agree with Don, but I understand the "undercurrents" of his posting, however everyone must understand there is not black and white, just shades of gray. I live in North Jersey, I used to be able to see the Twin Towers everday driving down Rt. 17, I used to work a block away & I also knew people that perished that day. I am not blaming the French, though I think we'd like a little more support in these things where they agree and don't argue that Hussien is a terrible man willing to use any means to further his own personal agenda. That includes genocide of his own people. Things that bother me are commercials like Susan Sarrandon asking the Question " What has Saddam Hussein done to America?" (It was on TV last night). That is RIDICULOUS. What did Hitler do to us? What did Milosevich?, etc, etc. Stupid question/commercial from a decent Actress (and hot looking in her day)....;^) Signed by.....basically a Liberal, but lets be real.
Not that I totally agree with Don, but I understand the "undercurrents" of his posting, however everyone must understand there is not black and white, just shades of gray. I live in North Jersey, I used to be able to see the Twin Towers everday driving down Rt. 17, I used to work a block away & I also knew people that perished that day. I am not blaming the French, though I think we'd like a little more support in these things where they agree and don't argue that Hussien is a terrible man willing to use any means to further his own personal agenda. That includes genocide of his own people. Things that bother me are commercials like Susan Sarrandon asking the Question " What has Saddam Hussein done to America?" (It was on TV last night). That is RIDICULOUS. What did Hitler do to us? What did Milosevich?, etc, etc. Stupid question/commercial from a decent Actress (and hot looking in her day)....;^) Signed by.....basically a Liberal, but lets be real.
Je suis Anglais
...And proud of it....OK someone said we may have had our differences in the past ;-).. But look who's right behind you today ... btw I wont buy French apples either lol
...And proud of it....OK someone said we may have had our differences in the past ;-).. But look who's right behind you today ... btw I wont buy French apples either lol
We Care, A Great Deal
My wife is from New Jersey, her folks live two blocks off of 17 and you could see the Trade Center from their house. Father Judge was a Priest at her church and did her First Communion. She is now in Kuwait with no idea when her deployment will end. It does not matter much if the French do not support us although I suspect they will come around when push comes to shove. What really is important is how they have been selling arms and buying oil from Iraq providing Saddam with two things he desperately needs cash and weapons. I will spend my money where it flows back to some other country. While I have never been on a French boat I have owned French cars and a Swedish car with a French engine if they are engineered and built the same I would not want one anyway.
My wife is from New Jersey, her folks live two blocks off of 17 and you could see the Trade Center from their house. Father Judge was a Priest at her church and did her First Communion. She is now in Kuwait with no idea when her deployment will end. It does not matter much if the French do not support us although I suspect they will come around when push comes to shove. What really is important is how they have been selling arms and buying oil from Iraq providing Saddam with two things he desperately needs cash and weapons. I will spend my money where it flows back to some other country. While I have never been on a French boat I have owned French cars and a Swedish car with a French engine if they are engineered and built the same I would not want one anyway.
Support
Colin, Is it true that you celebrate the 4th of July in UK, but you call it "Good Riddance Day"? You ever get to San Francisco I'll show you the waterfront from our 356. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Colin, Is it true that you celebrate the 4th of July in UK, but you call it "Good Riddance Day"? You ever get to San Francisco I'll show you the waterfront from our 356. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
What's Really Going On Here
This has been an interesting and very atypical thread for this site. I also think it's pretty revealing of human nature. Our country and our world are rapidly building toward one of our periodic crises. These situations tend to create anxiety in all of us that spills over into stated strong opinions. The French government is advocating caution, investigation, and more dialog before letting the bombs fly and killing a lot of people. You may agree with that, or you may think that the time for this discussion has passed. On numerous occasions over the centuries of our country's existence, the French government has taken positions fully supportive of our government including a key role in the creation of our country. Sometimes they aren't in agreement with us. Regardless of your political persuation or your viewpoint on a possible war with Iraq, hopefully you'll agree that France is a soverieign nation with it's right to make up it's own mind and to have an independent voice in the world of international affairs. You also have a right to disagree with their positions and to express that disagreement with your wallet if you choose. But remember there is the French government and then there are the French people. Do you agree with everything the US goverment does? How much control do you realistically exercise over what our government does and says? When we bash the French over the position their government is currently struggling with in international affairs, (or because a French sailboat manufacturer had the audacity to put plastic soles in their cabins), are we assuming that all French people have control and responsibility for this? When we say to someone else on this site that they "suck" because their opinion doesn't agree with ours, are we denying their right to an opinion and are we saying that everyone who doesn't line up with our choices "sucks?" This site has value to us because of a passion we all share that gets us away from the angst of our daily existence and concerns. It's been truly unique because we've been very supportive of each other and very uncritical of each other's knowledge gaps. That approach is a delicate thing. Let's keep these things in mind with our postings. Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
This has been an interesting and very atypical thread for this site. I also think it's pretty revealing of human nature. Our country and our world are rapidly building toward one of our periodic crises. These situations tend to create anxiety in all of us that spills over into stated strong opinions. The French government is advocating caution, investigation, and more dialog before letting the bombs fly and killing a lot of people. You may agree with that, or you may think that the time for this discussion has passed. On numerous occasions over the centuries of our country's existence, the French government has taken positions fully supportive of our government including a key role in the creation of our country. Sometimes they aren't in agreement with us. Regardless of your political persuation or your viewpoint on a possible war with Iraq, hopefully you'll agree that France is a soverieign nation with it's right to make up it's own mind and to have an independent voice in the world of international affairs. You also have a right to disagree with their positions and to express that disagreement with your wallet if you choose. But remember there is the French government and then there are the French people. Do you agree with everything the US goverment does? How much control do you realistically exercise over what our government does and says? When we bash the French over the position their government is currently struggling with in international affairs, (or because a French sailboat manufacturer had the audacity to put plastic soles in their cabins), are we assuming that all French people have control and responsibility for this? When we say to someone else on this site that they "suck" because their opinion doesn't agree with ours, are we denying their right to an opinion and are we saying that everyone who doesn't line up with our choices "sucks?" This site has value to us because of a passion we all share that gets us away from the angst of our daily existence and concerns. It's been truly unique because we've been very supportive of each other and very uncritical of each other's knowledge gaps. That approach is a delicate thing. Let's keep these things in mind with our postings. Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
Gary, Well said.
The whole rant about plastic floor's is a personal one and directly related to reasons why I might not purchase some of the newer beneteau's. I have a newer catalina and there is no wood on the exterior of the boat and I don't like how that looks. But it was much easier to add teak companionway doors, cockpit tables, etc to my boat. I like wood floors, the whole look feel and touch of them. Its just my opinion and not meant to persuade or dissuade anyone else. I was just stating a fact. BTW, I could see the benefits of these plastic floors if I was just purchasing a boat for racing or to put into charter trade, then I might consider it. Also, I noticed the new bavaria's are putting plastic floors on them also...geez Oh and if you gave me a new Jenneau 43 Deck Salon, would I keep it?...you bet I would....lol.....Just wish they didn't have an iron keel...;^)
The whole rant about plastic floor's is a personal one and directly related to reasons why I might not purchase some of the newer beneteau's. I have a newer catalina and there is no wood on the exterior of the boat and I don't like how that looks. But it was much easier to add teak companionway doors, cockpit tables, etc to my boat. I like wood floors, the whole look feel and touch of them. Its just my opinion and not meant to persuade or dissuade anyone else. I was just stating a fact. BTW, I could see the benefits of these plastic floors if I was just purchasing a boat for racing or to put into charter trade, then I might consider it. Also, I noticed the new bavaria's are putting plastic floors on them also...geez Oh and if you gave me a new Jenneau 43 Deck Salon, would I keep it?...you bet I would....lol.....Just wish they didn't have an iron keel...;^)
Bravo, Gary!
Well said. This is an interesting thread but I would prefer that we keep it civil. If not, I will have no choice but to archive it. Thanks! ph.
Well said. This is an interesting thread but I would prefer that we keep it civil. If not, I will have no choice but to archive it. Thanks! ph.
Here is some closure
FROM A MARINE IN KOSOVO A funny thing happened to me yesterday at Camp Bondsteel (Bosnia); A French army officer walked up to me in the PX, and told me he thought we (Americans) were a bunch of cowboys and were going to provoke a war. He said if such a thing happens, we wouldn’t be able to count on the support of France. I told him that it didn’t surprise me. Since we had come to France’s rescue in World War I, World War II, Vietnam, and the Cold War, their ingratitude and jealousy was due to surface at some point in the near future, anyway. That is why France is a third-rate military power with a socialist economy and a bunch of rifle-dropping faggots for soldiers. I additionally told him that America, being a nation of DEEDS and ACTION, not words, would do whatever it had to do, and France’s support was only for show, anyway. Just like ALL NATO exercises, the U.S. would shoulder 85% of the burden, as evidenced by the fact that the French officer was shopping in the American PX, and not the other way around. He began to get belligerent at that point, and I told him if he would like to, I would meet him outside in front of the Burger King and beat his ass in front of the entire Multi-National Brigade East, thus demonstrating that even the smallest American had more fight in him than any Frenchman. He called me a barbarian cowboy and walked away in a huff. With friends like these, who needs enemies? Mary Beth Jackson LtCol, USMC
FROM A MARINE IN KOSOVO A funny thing happened to me yesterday at Camp Bondsteel (Bosnia); A French army officer walked up to me in the PX, and told me he thought we (Americans) were a bunch of cowboys and were going to provoke a war. He said if such a thing happens, we wouldn’t be able to count on the support of France. I told him that it didn’t surprise me. Since we had come to France’s rescue in World War I, World War II, Vietnam, and the Cold War, their ingratitude and jealousy was due to surface at some point in the near future, anyway. That is why France is a third-rate military power with a socialist economy and a bunch of rifle-dropping faggots for soldiers. I additionally told him that America, being a nation of DEEDS and ACTION, not words, would do whatever it had to do, and France’s support was only for show, anyway. Just like ALL NATO exercises, the U.S. would shoulder 85% of the burden, as evidenced by the fact that the French officer was shopping in the American PX, and not the other way around. He began to get belligerent at that point, and I told him if he would like to, I would meet him outside in front of the Burger King and beat his ass in front of the entire Multi-National Brigade East, thus demonstrating that even the smallest American had more fight in him than any Frenchman. He called me a barbarian cowboy and walked away in a huff. With friends like these, who needs enemies? Mary Beth Jackson LtCol, USMC
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