Working Jib vs Reefed Genny
- Thread starter druid
- Start date
- Status
$1300 USD for a generic roller furling Genoa. On a CDI furler all you need is generic set it and forget sail. With no ability to change halyard tension to shape the sail there is no need for anything better.
What did you think was hold the sail up? Didn't you notice you had no jib halyard?
You aren't using the jib halyard for the spinnaker I hope.
Randy
Randy, I DO have a jib halyard, but it's hooked to the mast. To be honest, I hadn't really thought about it ("Jib halyard...there, main halyard...there..."). And you CAN adjust the luff tension on a CDI with what amounts to a downhaul. I'm having the new sail cut with a hair less luff so I can adjust it better - the old one was right down to the drum.
I ended up getting a 140%, 6.5oz "High Modulus Dacron" from Leitch&McBride for $1800 or so. He didn't think the foam luff would do much good ("we're cutting headsails flatter these days"). I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing how this new sail will perform! Oh, and I'm getting sunbrella UV cover to match the main cover and dodger - should look sharp!
druid
I ended up getting a 140%, 6.5oz "High Modulus Dacron" from Leitch&McBride for $1800 or so. He didn't think the foam luff would do much good ("we're cutting headsails flatter these days"). I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing how this new sail will perform! Oh, and I'm getting sunbrella UV cover to match the main cover and dodger - should look sharp!
druid
Yes, I know CDI's have a downhaul. Are you going out to the pointy end of your boat to make that adjustment when the wind pipes up? No one does, that is what prompted my set it and forget it comment.
Yes, roller furling head sails are cut flatter these days. I have a sail that is so flat that there is only a 3 degree sweet spot between inner or outer tell-tales breaking. Flat sails are not great power producers and are much fussier on trim.
Sunbrella is sturdy ... no doubt. It is also heavy. Summer sailing out of North Van in mostly light air. The extra weight will alter sail shape. The boat will also pitch more with the extra weight aloft, you will notice this when the sail is rolled up and you have the spinnaker up as well as in any chop when using the Genoa.
Might I suggest two alternatives?
Get a light sacrificial UV cover on the sail and have it replaced every couple of years. It won't look as sharp as the matching Sunbrella ...
or
Have a matching Sunbrella sock made to cover the sail when you are not saiilng. You have that unused jib halyard to raise the cover over the rolled sail. The cover has a long zipper so you can wrap it around the rolled sail and zip it up as you raise it with the halyard. Take a look at the Martin 242's that Cooper's uses to see what I'm talking about. This gives you a sharp looking cover that matches your main cover while the boat is waiting to go play. It also allows the sail to roll tighter and saves weight aloft while sailing.
I know you are thinking about that trip up the outside of the island. You might not think that the extra weight of the UV cover is a big deal, but I'll bet you see your average sailing speed go up a quarter knot or more. Only a few extra miles each day ... but they are free miles and more comfortable miles.
I know ... I'm too fussy ...
Congrats on the new sail. You won't believe the difference it will make!
Randy
I don't know. I put 25 pounds of radar half way up the mast on my rather tender boat and have hardly noticed any difference in performance.
The thinner stuff my sailmaker used for the sun cover instead of Sunbrella is a big improvement though. It does roll tighter and better. I just had him use white and it's hard to tell that it's there which is the look I prefer.
:neutral:
I'm a geek ... I record performance data every 30 seconds.
I also have little or no patience when a boat is pitching or rolling and upsetting my sail trim. :cussing:
I am probably over sensitive to these things. I can see higher average speeds with less weight aloft in the instrument logs. Hell, I've been known to send halyards up the mast on a tag line to bring half the length (and weight) to the deck. .25 knots better average is about 50 seconds a mile in light air ... I look for .05 knot improvements in average speed ... I missed winning a race by a difference of .08 knot average last weekend.
The Sunbrella is not just heavy, it is thick. With a thinner UV cover the sail should have better shape when area is reduced. It all adds up.
Randy
Wow - I think you've taken pedantry to new heights!
Let's do some math: the cover is approx. 1 ft wide, down the leech and the foot. On my new sail, that's about 48ft. Converting to square yards, that's 5.33 square yards. If the "lightweight" UV is the same weight as the sailcloth (6.5 oz), that's 2.16 lb. According to the website, Sunbrella is 12 oz, which would weigh 4.0 lb. That's a difference of 1.84 lb - I'd guess that's less than getting the sails wet! And since it's distributed down the forestay, it would be the equivalent of putting an anchor light weighing 0.92 lb on the masthead.
As for your speed calcs: I'm AMAZED you can find conditions (wind, waves, tidal current, boat weight, sail trim, bottom cleanliness...) identical enough to attribute 0.05 knots difference to the position of your spare halyard.
You can worry about it if you like - I'm not going to.
druid
Thats what my wife says. :neutral:Wow - I think you've taken pedantry to new heights!
I do tend to keep records of how many days it has been since the bottom was clean and I run a program that logs the instrument data every 30 seconds. I look for chunks of data that are comparable.
I have enough data that I know that being obsessive about weight aloft results in better performance.
I haven't taken the paint off the mast yet ...
Randy
- Status