Woodworkers

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higgs

higgs

.
Aug 24, 2005
3,736
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Redoing a teak forward hatch that, unlike a lot of the woodworking on my boat, is not of the best joinery work. It is constructed as a wood frame with a plexiglass top. The corners were mitered, but gaps exist that detract from the appearance of the hatch. What would be best to fill these gaps with considering that I need something durable and something that will look good when varnished? Remember, this hatch will be opened and closed a lot so I would think the frame would be subject to a lot of twisting. Silicone or polysulfide would allow for the flexibility but would look lousy when varnished, while a putty type wood filler is almost certainly to crack and fall out. One possibility I am considering is trying to color epoxy with teak saw dust in an attempt to make those filled spots blend in better.
 
higgs

higgs

.
Aug 24, 2005
3,736
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Redoing a teak forward hatch that, unlike a lot of the woodworking on my boat, is not of the best joinery work. It is constructed as a wood frame with a plexiglass top. The corners were mitered, but gaps exist that detract from the appearance of the hatch. What would be best to fill these gaps with considering that I need something durable and something that will look good when varnished? Remember, this hatch will be opened and closed a lot so I would think the frame would be subject to a lot of twisting. Silicone or polysulfide would allow for the flexibility but would look lousy when varnished, while a putty type wood filler is almost certainly to crack and fall out. One possibility I am considering is trying to color epoxy with teak saw dust in an attempt to make those filled spots blend in better.
 
Tim R.

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Why not make a new frame?

Dove tail the joints. You can get a jig that will use a router to make perfect dovetail joints. It will look great and hold together for years. I am about to make some speaker boxes out of 1/2 in. teak because the Cybernet boxes are just too ugly to put back in my refinished interior. Filling the craks with epoxy will not keep it from cracking again unfortunately. Tim R.
 
Tim R.

Tim R.

.
May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Why not make a new frame?

Dove tail the joints. You can get a jig that will use a router to make perfect dovetail joints. It will look great and hold together for years. I am about to make some speaker boxes out of 1/2 in. teak because the Cybernet boxes are just too ugly to put back in my refinished interior. Filling the craks with epoxy will not keep it from cracking again unfortunately. Tim R.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
The corners shouldn't be mitered

a dovetail or lapped joint is a better choice. Lacking that you could clamp the frame and dowel the corners in both directions.
 
Ross

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
The corners shouldn't be mitered

a dovetail or lapped joint is a better choice. Lacking that you could clamp the frame and dowel the corners in both directions.
 
Scott On Eagles Wings

Scott On Eagles Wings

.
Jan 22, 2007
268
Oday 23 Cedar Creek Marina Bayville NJ
Box Joint

A Box joint will by far provide you with the most glue surface. A box joint can be cut on a table saw if you lack the more advanced woodworking tools. A box joint looks like a square through dovetail. You could even drill a small dowel through the whole assemble when finished for added strenght. Enjoy Scott " On Eagles Wings"
 
Scott On Eagles Wings

Scott On Eagles Wings

.
Jan 22, 2007
268
Oday 23 Cedar Creek Marina Bayville NJ
Box Joint

A Box joint will by far provide you with the most glue surface. A box joint can be cut on a table saw if you lack the more advanced woodworking tools. A box joint looks like a square through dovetail. You could even drill a small dowel through the whole assemble when finished for added strenght. Enjoy Scott " On Eagles Wings"
 
Landsend

Landsend

.
Aug 9, 2005
772
Hunter 28.5 Palm Coast, FL
why not replace with new Bomar hatch?

The amount of time you'd spend rebuilding the frame could be used to install a nice new hatch as an upgrade to your boat.
 
Landsend

Landsend

.
Aug 9, 2005
772
Hunter 28.5 Palm Coast, FL
why not replace with new Bomar hatch?

The amount of time you'd spend rebuilding the frame could be used to install a nice new hatch as an upgrade to your boat.
 
E

Eric Motter

Sawdust Filled Epoxy

Sawdust filled epoxy works well for filling various wood imperfections / cracks and looks pretty good when varnished. I used this technique to fair the joints between planks on a stitch and glue kayak I built last year. One other little know trick is that with enough fill coats of a quality extra clear epoxy (west systems is my favorite after building a pair of kayaks) even 6oz glass cloth will be clear enough you cannot see the weave from more than a foot away. The trick is to keep putting on more coats of epoxy until the weave is completely filled, and not letting any one coat dry where you have to sand before applying the next coat. Even one layer of glass wrapped around the outside of your frame could add significant strength if you are concerned about the miter joints opening again in the future.
 
E

Eric Motter

Sawdust Filled Epoxy

Sawdust filled epoxy works well for filling various wood imperfections / cracks and looks pretty good when varnished. I used this technique to fair the joints between planks on a stitch and glue kayak I built last year. One other little know trick is that with enough fill coats of a quality extra clear epoxy (west systems is my favorite after building a pair of kayaks) even 6oz glass cloth will be clear enough you cannot see the weave from more than a foot away. The trick is to keep putting on more coats of epoxy until the weave is completely filled, and not letting any one coat dry where you have to sand before applying the next coat. Even one layer of glass wrapped around the outside of your frame could add significant strength if you are concerned about the miter joints opening again in the future.
 
CalebD

CalebD

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Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
A note on bonding epoxy to wood

Wood is susceptible to humidity and temperature that can make it expand and contract whereas epoxy is essentially weather proof (but not UV proof). On the well intended advice from a WM employee I coated my teak laminated ply lazarette covers with West System epoxy using the 207 clear hardener and then varnished the whole affair. After 4 years in the elements it looks like crap as the epoxy has separated from the wood showing yellowed spots. It might have worked better if I was able to encase each cover entirely with more coats of epoxy but I can't confirm this either. The West System fairing filler (410?) gives the epoxy a brown color that would at least blend with the color of teak and could be used only in the joints Higgs mentions and would probably hold up a number of years before needing more attention. Since we are talking about a hatch cover frame here I would think that using a hard product like epoxy is not the optimal solution. Rather, a flexible when cured caulk or bedding compound would hold up better to the stress of being slammed shut on occasion. The best solution though is a better joint in this frame than a simple miter cut as suggested by previous posters. With box jointed ends you could add a dowel and a corner brace in each corner using a good wood glue and you are done except for keeping the teak varnished from the elements.
 
CalebD

CalebD

.
Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
A note on bonding epoxy to wood

Wood is susceptible to humidity and temperature that can make it expand and contract whereas epoxy is essentially weather proof (but not UV proof). On the well intended advice from a WM employee I coated my teak laminated ply lazarette covers with West System epoxy using the 207 clear hardener and then varnished the whole affair. After 4 years in the elements it looks like crap as the epoxy has separated from the wood showing yellowed spots. It might have worked better if I was able to encase each cover entirely with more coats of epoxy but I can't confirm this either. The West System fairing filler (410?) gives the epoxy a brown color that would at least blend with the color of teak and could be used only in the joints Higgs mentions and would probably hold up a number of years before needing more attention. Since we are talking about a hatch cover frame here I would think that using a hard product like epoxy is not the optimal solution. Rather, a flexible when cured caulk or bedding compound would hold up better to the stress of being slammed shut on occasion. The best solution though is a better joint in this frame than a simple miter cut as suggested by previous posters. With box jointed ends you could add a dowel and a corner brace in each corner using a good wood glue and you are done except for keeping the teak varnished from the elements.
 
sailaway78

sailaway78

.
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Why Not

Assuming that you do not want to build a new frame, or replace the hatch. As Ross suggested clamp, drill and dowel the corner joints, which will keep them rigid and tight. Then fill the cracks, which should be very small, with a really good quality caulk, but use black as an accent. This should look pretty good, if the corner cracks are small, and all 4 corners similar in size.
 
sailaway78

sailaway78

.
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Why Not

Assuming that you do not want to build a new frame, or replace the hatch. As Ross suggested clamp, drill and dowel the corner joints, which will keep them rigid and tight. Then fill the cracks, which should be very small, with a really good quality caulk, but use black as an accent. This should look pretty good, if the corner cracks are small, and all 4 corners similar in size.
 
Chris Burti

Chris Burti

.
Dec 2, 2003
480
Catalina C-320 Washington, NC
Consider this

Poorly cut mitre joints will never look right and offer little bonding surface to withstand the stresses of a working joint. If you don't want to rebuild the frame, consider this fix: Obtain an 18" length of teak that is square in dimension and approximately 3/8" thicker than the boards on your frame. Using a table saw or router table, dado a 1/2" deep rabbet, the thickness of your frame boards down the full length of two adjoining faces. Cut the rabbets as close to the adjoining corner as you can, but leave a little wood (to aid in assembly). Cut off short lengths equal to the width of the frame (that is: the depth from the Plexiglas to the deck). Next cut out the mitred corners of the frame just enough to slide these legs in (think "Lincoln Logs"). Clamp and glue with gorilla glue. When the glue has fully set, relieve the inside corners of the excess wood with a wood chisel if it prevents the hatch from closing easily over the deck flange. Strip and varnish all, there should be no seams to fill.
 
Chris Burti

Chris Burti

.
Dec 2, 2003
480
Catalina C-320 Washington, NC
Consider this

Poorly cut mitre joints will never look right and offer little bonding surface to withstand the stresses of a working joint. If you don't want to rebuild the frame, consider this fix: Obtain an 18" length of teak that is square in dimension and approximately 3/8" thicker than the boards on your frame. Using a table saw or router table, dado a 1/2" deep rabbet, the thickness of your frame boards down the full length of two adjoining faces. Cut the rabbets as close to the adjoining corner as you can, but leave a little wood (to aid in assembly). Cut off short lengths equal to the width of the frame (that is: the depth from the Plexiglas to the deck). Next cut out the mitred corners of the frame just enough to slide these legs in (think "Lincoln Logs"). Clamp and glue with gorilla glue. When the glue has fully set, relieve the inside corners of the excess wood with a wood chisel if it prevents the hatch from closing easily over the deck flange. Strip and varnish all, there should be no seams to fill.
 
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