wood refinishing questions

[gitpicker2007]

I'm about to refinish the outside wood rails, hatch boards and hatch trim.
I've never done it before (bought my 1982 22 2 years ago).

Any advice/recommendations as to the process, and what to use would be appreciated.

Should I remove the wood from the boat? Do you have to sand it down to the bare wood?
What products do you recommend?

The only product I'm familiar with is Valspar because the tiller is beautifully done in it.
Should I also use that on the outside wood trim?

Sorry for so many questions, but this is a first for me.


Thanks

 

[watercolors II]

Knowledge is easy to find, the time it takes isn’t

Wood finishing is a long drawn out process, especially on a boat, and never ending.

Removing the wood from the boat will make it easier and then you can reseal all the attachment places that have to be done every couple years anyhow.

Wood that has not be coated for a number of years or needs the old finished removed will have a very deep grain in the wood, will need to be sanded and will need many coats of whatever to fill this grain up to a smooth level before the finish starts to look good. We’re talking 13 to 20 coats of varnish to look smooth and shiny, every year adding a couple more coats to keep it looking that way.

Many years ago I was visiting the the Chesapeake Maritime Museum in St. Michaels, VA and in the paint shop someone was mixing paint, so I asked what they considered the best varnish for on a boat and he said “Flagship with a minimum of 13 coats.”

I refinished all of the wood on my boat with Flagship, 13 coats and then made a canvas cover to cover all of the wood to protect it from the sun. Every couple years I have added a couple coats of varnish and now its been a couple years and I can see where some of the varnish is getting very hard and cracking. Those areas will need the varnish removed and many many new coats of varnish added to bring it up to the level of the rest of the finish to look good again.

 

[CloudDiver]

Watercolors pretty much covered it, your approach will depend on what finish was on the wood before and what condition it is currently in. If its as bad as mine is and from what I've sen on my any boats the best thing to do is remove all the wood and completely sand it down. My teak has very deep grain since it was neglected for so long. My solution to this, rather than use 12 to 14 coats of varnish, is to do two base coats of epoxy sanded with 120 between coats. This builds up and fills the grain WAY faster than varnish and makes the teak waterproof. Epoxy has no UV resistance and will yellow badly by itself, so 4 to 6 coats of varnish is needed afterwards for the UV protection. With this method you have to be vigilant in adding your touch up coats each year, if you allow the varnish to 'go' for too long and it flakes or splits allowing UV to damage the epoxy underneath then you'll have to repeat the process entirely. Since the wood will be so smooth, each year all you have to do is rub it down with a red Scotch Brite pad to dull it a little and brush on two light coats.

Don't let that scare you.... this method is use by many Wood Refinishers who make hardwood look like glass on 'Bristol' wooden yachts. The epoxy is expensive, but the time you save vs over a dozen coats of varnish can be well worth it. Just use a quality varnish, NOT Valspar or anything you get from the big box home stores. I know because I used Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane varnish on my wood hot tub and it barley lasted 1 year. I like Epifanes, about $22 a quart.

I chose this method for my exterior teak because I half about 1/2 gallon of WEST epoxy left over after I finished the majority of major repair work on my resto (I used a total of 5 gallons doing the keel, bottom job blister repair, and other repairs). Had I not had the epoxy left over I might not have wanted to invest the extra $ in buying another quart of epoxy. The other thing you will hear is that people want to use a hardener in the epoxy that is clear. The 'special clear' hardener for WEST epoxy is VERY expensive compared to the standard fast and slow hardeners. I throw the BS flag on this issue... I've been using the fast cure hardener and it does have an amber tint to it when mixed with the epoxy. This is fine and it goes pretty well with the natural teak color. If you are really concerned about it the standard slow cure hardener seems virtually clear to me, and I've used a bunch of it in the past. Had I not used the epoxy I'm willing to bet I would have ended up buying extra quarts of varnish doing the multiple layers of build up and the price would have been the same anyway.

 

[Barnacle_Bob]

Below is how I do my teak - it's worked for me for e past 4-years. - Bob


EXTERIOR TEAK CARE:

MATERIALS LIST:
Exterior Teak Materials:
- small container to hold cleaning solution and teak oil when you are applying them (paper cup, cat-food can, etc.)- 100-grit sand paper for coarse sanding if the teak is rough
- 220-grit sand paper for finish sanding
- blue painters tape
- soft brass brush (Harbor Freight cheapies are okay)
- 1-inch disposable paint brushes (Harbor Freight cheapies)
- Whisk or similar laundry detergent
- household chlorox bleach
- rags
- small container of mineral spirits for wiping teak oil off the fiberglass

Interior Teak & Woodwork Materials:
- clean rags
- paper towels
- Weiman Lemon Oil (readily available at WalMart, Ace Hardware, etc.)
- mineral spirits (acetone okay??)


PROCEDURE - EXTERIOR TEAK:
1. Cleaning the teak:
- mix cleaning solution of bleach and Whisk at about 25% / 75% - can do 50/50 if teak is really dirty
- apply cleaning solution to teak with a paint
- work the cleaning solution into the surface with the soft brass brush (do not use a plain wire-brush - small brush fibers will fall on your deck and create rust spots ... brass will not rust)
- rinse thoroughly with a hose and allow to dry thoroughly

2. Sanding:
- tape-off the fiberglas deck around the teak hand-rails and cabin-top slides to protect them from the sand-paper and from the oil
- sand the cleaned teak, taking care not to mar the fiberglas with the sand paper
- use course sand paper if the teak is particularly coarse and weathered
- finish sand with the fine sand paper

3. Oiling:
- shake the teak oil can very thoroughly
- apply the oil with a 1-inch disposable paint brush. The teak will really drink in this oil - apply repeatedly, allowing the oil to soak in between coats - until the oil pools on the surface and no longer sinks in
- wipe-off the access oil with rags. Can wipe-off with acetone after a few weeks if needed to remove access oil
- if you get any oil on the fiberglas, wipe it up right away with a clean rag - the rag can be soaked in mineral oil to be a more effective cleaner


PROCEDURE - INTERIOR TEAK & WOODWORK:
1. Apply Weiman Lemon Oil to a clean rag and rub into wood surfaces. Take care to keep the oil off of fiberglas surfaces (see step #4 for clean-up if some gets on the fiberglas)
2. Repeat, and allow to soak in.
3. Wipe-away excess oil
4. Use a rag dampened with mineral spirits to remove oil from fiberglas surfaces

Also, check out this product, as forwarded to me by A friend. Looks like an interesting company and an interesting product. Previous owner for my friend's Montgomery swore by it. I will order this product after my current can of teak oil is spent.

American Rope & Tar LLC :: Le Tonkinois - Original








American Rope & Tar LLC :: Le Tonkinois - Original
Le Tonkinois, Original Le Tonkinois (Lay-TON-kin-wah) is an all natural, environmentally friendly tung oil and linseed oil based varnish oil.
View on www.tarsmell.com
Preview by Yahoo


- Bob

 

[gitpicker2007]

thanks for all the info. I'm going to start this weekend. Will try to take some before and after pics.

 

[ppm411]

Just did all of my wood this past winter. Took everything off sanded and sanded going up on grit as I moved along. Used man o war varnish, about 8 coats. Micro bubbles are annoying with a foam brush but you can sand between every coat and try try again. You'll develop a great technique by the time you've done it 8 times. My grab handles were shot but surprisingly cheap since they are come in standard sizes. Use polyurethane based glue when mounting the pieces back in the boat and Def spring for a new hasp on the crib boards for an extra clean look. I've been enjoying the fruits of my labor all summer. Have fun!

 

[DJM]

I just started my 1982 C22 wood project and was lucky that everything came right off, all the old bedding just crumbled. Only set back was getting the wood plugs out that hide some of the screw heads without damage to the board just take your time removing them. I sanded the old bleached out boards with a palm sander starting with 80 grit then moved up to 150 grit. You will want to wear a good dust/vapor mask and maybe consider open area with a fan blowing, there is lots of fine dust. I hand sanded low or troubled areas that the palm sander missed then I wiped all the boards down with acetone using two rags one wet one dry to remove fine dust in the grooves. I like to try new things so I used cetol natural teak following can recommendation of sanding with 3m scuff pad between coats and will be topping that with cetol marine gloss for UV protection then re-bedding everything with 3M 4000 UV. I'm hoping that spending the extra time and money will pay off. The selling point for me was scuffing and recoating in the future and availability. I like the look and use of it so far it fills the deep grooves fine and does not have bubbles in the texture like the urethane I have used in the past. I put it on with cheap throw-away chip brushes in a room with good light away from where the sanding was done.

In the past I have used Waterlox products with UV protectant on a tiller head and tiller and it was a nice product but hard to find in the area I live and shipping cost was almost as much to order it. Next I did some boards with Minwax polyshade polyurethane then went over that with Minwax Helmsmen Spar urethane for outdoor use it seemed ok still have to see how well it holds up but at least it's available at a local store. One thing to remember is once you open the cans try to use all of it within a short time frame because it will start to get thick and will be unusable. There is one trick I learned to save finish using a mason jar and a product called Bloxygen it works by displacing the oxygen with heavy inert gas, I was able to save 1/2 qt for 3 years so it was worth the effort.