I am re-varnishing my teak & holly sole on my Catalina 36. I will use Target coating which is what was originally used. It's a water based product. The floorboard are 3/8 thick and the top veneer is very thin. I don't want to sand through it. Is there a way to prep the old surface other than sanding? I seem to remember using a chemical deglosser years ago on some household furniture. Or mayby using some strong detergent like Soilax is an option? If I have to I can lightly sand but I was hoping to make this job quicker. I know there is some experience out there. What are your thoughts. Thanks.
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If it is raw wood, most any liquid will raise the grain and make it rough. Sand it by hand with 220 to get it smooth. Use a sanding block. You will not sand through the veneer. Then apply a sanding sealer and let dry. This will raise the grain. Sand again with 320, wipe down and apply your first coat of varnish.
TSP works with most coatings to de-gloss, use rubber gloves and wipe it down,then rinse well.
That or a scuff sanding works pretty nicely to make it right for a repaint/varnish.
Ken.
That or a scuff sanding works pretty nicely to make it right for a repaint/varnish.
Ken.
While Tim is certainly the voice of experience, I have to be the voice of reason. My veneer has apparently been refinished multiple times, is stained now and has patches made by previous owners lifting. I don't think I COULD sand it with anything of significance and not go through. If I was concerned about thickness, I'd go with the 320 just to cloud the surface and only resort to 220 if I there was a serious flaw I had to tackle (staining or a blob of finish from the previous job for example).
Tim, any ideas for stains? I have dark stains in the corner that are likely due to water or ethanol spilled there.
Tim, any ideas for stains? I have dark stains in the corner that are likely due to water or ethanol spilled there.
Sorry Bob but water stains and oil based stains can be nearly impossible to deal with and often it is quicker and easier to replace the veneer. Both are liquids and have probably gone through the thickness of the veneer so sanding will be fruitless. I have heard of using some wood stain to try and hide water stains but if you look close, you will still see them. Good for the guest but you will always notice them. I had some veneer on my boat that was so thin, it peeled off like paper.
Replacing the sole shouldn't be too bad. See my link below for more info.
http://treilley.myphotoalbum.com/view_album.php?set_albumName=album34
PM me if you would like to discuss in detail.
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i wouldn't varnish it that seals it from the top . what about the bottom ( moisture from below)??? I'd use teak oil or linseed oil and steel wool with a light sanding between coats ,this seals the wood veneer all the way through. that's tough to stain from either side
The best finish I've found for cabin soles is Ultimate Sole. It is far more durable and less slipperly than almost any other finish for a wooden sole. I'd highly recommend it. BTW, don't use steel "steel-wool" on a boat, unless you like rust pox. Use a scotchbrite pad instead—same results, no rust pox.
Good catch on the steel wool Dog. Steel wool has no place anywhere on a boat. Bronze wool is acceptable but scotchbrites are the best.
I know people that have used the Ultimate sole and it is a really nice finish that has great non skid properties.
I know people that have used the Ultimate sole and it is a really nice finish that has great non skid properties.
Thanks for the inputs guys. Fortunately my sole is in really good shape. I just want to keep it that way and make it look a little better than it does now. I have taken care of all the other more pressing projects/improvements in the past two years since purchasing the vessel so now its time to tackle the purely cosmetic ones. I am not planning to strip the sole down to the bare wood. And as long as I am using the same varnish as the original I believe I can get by with very, very light sanding just for the adhesion factor. I also like the idea of using TSP to ensure adhesion in those minor voids I may not hit with with sandpaper. I have removed the sole off the boat and I was planning on sealing the underside which appears to be mahogany. I think two coats should do?
Never used Ultimate Sole, so have no comment on that. I guess if you use what was originally used, well...I guess I wonder why it has to be redone. Did the original stuff not hold up.? I am a big fan of Epiphanes varnish and they have several types of which a few (gloss and satin) are formulated for teak. Applied according to the instructions, it holds up very well, attaches to teak wonderfully (even solid teak which has more natural oils). The most beautiful varnish work I have seen on boats are in Maine. Perhaps their season is short enough so that the boats are not subjected to the harsher southern climates, but man are they good at bright work. Never did find out if the wood is bare now, or saturated with the Target stuff (never heard of it). That would have a bearing on how one approaches this. If you have a coating of the Target stuff and just need to sand a bit to provide a tooth for the new coating, then I would just lightly sand and clean to accomplish this. Someone mentioned steel wool and rust stains. True story. But, remember you can also get bronze wool which doesn't leave little bits that rust.
I just finished stripping mine with a chemical stripper and that was a pretty easy job. I brought the boards home and did it in my basement, not on the boat.
I am fairly new to the boat repair world. But have had a lot of luck using a simple non toxic three step teak cleaner with a wire brush to restore a lot of the teak. I am not re varnishing anything. But the teak cleaners can do a lot from what I have read an seen. However I thought it was bad to varnish or poly over teak wood, doesn't it go very dark / black if you dont treat it once a year with oil?
Thanks Tim
I thought as much, based upon what I have seen elsewhere. Your sole came out beautifully. Unfortunately serious interior repairs will have to wait. I may just put a little linoleum or vinyl tile in the galley area where the stains and thin veneer are just to tidy things up a bit until I get around to the interior.
Water based or maybe not?
Target made several different coatings over the years. If your boat is more than 10 years old, you may want to confirm which product was used. I would have concerns about adhesion of a water based coating on top of a conventional polyurethane. A good scrub with a tough cleaner and scuff sanding is needed no matter which flavor is present. My soles are 3/8" ply laminated to 3/4 fir plywood. Most of the staining I have is due to seepage in the end grain. Lay some extra coats on the edges as you go, and definitely do the backs!
Target made several different coatings over the years. If your boat is more than 10 years old, you may want to confirm which product was used. I would have concerns about adhesion of a water based coating on top of a conventional polyurethane. A good scrub with a tough cleaner and scuff sanding is needed no matter which flavor is present. My soles are 3/8" ply laminated to 3/4 fir plywood. Most of the staining I have is due to seepage in the end grain. Lay some extra coats on the edges as you go, and definitely do the backs!
Bill—
The guy is re-finishing a cabin sole. Using almost any varnish on it will make it about as safe to walk on as ice when wet...:naughty:
The guy is re-finishing a cabin sole. Using almost any varnish on it will make it about as safe to walk on as ice when wet...:naughty:
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A few more words
For clarification I am re-coating mostly for cosmetics. After 13 years the original finish is starting to show some wear. Held up relatively well over the years though. A few more coats will really make this sole look good and prevent less problems later on. I am using Target cause that's what Catalina used on the boat. I did check with them.
I am familiar with Epiphanes and used it on my cockpit doors and cockpit table. Looks great. That's all I have to worry about on the exterior so I can take the extra work/time involved with the oil based varnish. But the interior is finished with the Target coatings and I'll have to stick with it. I have used it before and its really a breeze to work with. Dries real fast and almost no odor. I plan to work on this project in my basement this week-end when I'm not at the Chicago Strictly Sail show.
I am re-coating the cabin sole and not the cockpit sole. It will be Ok to walk on - not a safety issue. Thanks again.
For clarification I am re-coating mostly for cosmetics. After 13 years the original finish is starting to show some wear. Held up relatively well over the years though. A few more coats will really make this sole look good and prevent less problems later on. I am using Target cause that's what Catalina used on the boat. I did check with them.
I am familiar with Epiphanes and used it on my cockpit doors and cockpit table. Looks great. That's all I have to worry about on the exterior so I can take the extra work/time involved with the oil based varnish. But the interior is finished with the Target coatings and I'll have to stick with it. I have used it before and its really a breeze to work with. Dries real fast and almost no odor. I plan to work on this project in my basement this week-end when I'm not at the Chicago Strictly Sail show.
I am re-coating the cabin sole and not the cockpit sole. It will be Ok to walk on - not a safety issue. Thanks again.
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