Wood Handrails

rufus1138 · Oct 2, 2013

i havent replaced but we did alot of resto work on my 27 exterior and if i wasnt selling it then i would convert to stainless when the wood was too far gone, do it once and do it to last forever. same reason i will never replace a wooden compression post, always go with a metal one and do it right.

Chenega · Oct 2, 2013

Mr Mac said:
As stated, we have a 1981 H25 that has been neglected for some time and that, unfortunately, includes the wood on the exterior. The handrail/hatch guides are pretty much goners with some sever checking of the wood so they will need to be replaced. I know I can get new rails and the wood to create the base for the rail/hatch guide easy enough from Buck Woodcraft, but I can also make them myself using white oak or some other wood that can take the outdoors provided I keep up on the maintenance. Has anyone else done this and, if so, what wood and finish did you use? What would you change looking back?

You will be surprised what sanding an re finishing can produce. If parts can be removed and not damaged, I would remove, sand down to new wood, seal the underside to prevent water absorption with epoxy, and re finish with 6-8 coats of epiphanies varnish. A great winter project... Re install in spring - install bungs and cut, apply varnish to bungs ( yep 6 coats) sand and apply one finish coat. Install with butyl tape. It will be beautiful... Apply one finish coat the next spring. The key is to seal the underside so it doesn't absorb moisture. You will be proud! Enjoy the process - teak can be restored! Don't use the oak as it will turn black. (From iPhone excuse my fat thumbs)

Merlin Clark · Oct 2, 2013

I used Azek PVC deck lumber to replace all of my topside trim. I don't like the "sterile" look.

zeehag · Oct 2, 2013

i leave my teak rails bare so when i need them i dont lose my grip. mine are not slick.
i use sea water and oil if i remember.

zeehag · Oct 2, 2013

what i didto restore my treak rails was awash em in sea water with a 3m green pad,and oil em. they came back well. sanding teak only removes too much of it. cannot get the goodstuff anymore..use care with it. it will outlast you.

if you do not have seawater, make a brine and wash em in that. then oil before they even thoroughly dry.

Ross · Oct 2, 2013

I use all heart white oak for my stanchion bases 14 years ago and I check them every year with a pointy pocket knife so far I can't find any soft spots.

Stu Jackson · Oct 2, 2013

To the OP:
A BATCH OF TEAK CLEANER AND BRIGHTNER FIRST WILL GIVE YOU A GOOD IDEA OF WHAT THE CONDITION OF YOUR WOOD TRULY IS.

zeehag · Oct 3, 2013

cheapest way to see how the teak really is --use salt water and 3m pad. scrub gently so as not to mess up the grain''you dont want to bring it to a rough state. just gently wash with salt water and 3m pad. doesnt mess with your gelcoat either. is how i got my 120 ft of caprail cleaned when i first got this formosa. there is a lot of teak on a formposa and mine was all silver grey when i got this boat, and cracking..now it is not cracking and not silver grey but wood colored.

Brian S · Oct 3, 2013

When you clean teak, always scrub ACROSS the grain. If you scrub with the grain, it will dig out the softer wood bands, and cause the harder rings to appear lifted.

You can probably get by cleaning and sanding the hand rails, but if your hatch sliders are cracked as you say, you're probably better off replacing them. You also say you have a wood shop, so you may find that you're better off just buying some teak boards and cutting yourself, rather than buying pre-made pieces from someone else. Or maybe not... From your picture, it looks as if the hatch sliders are L shaped in profile, which would be pretty easy to do with a router table. Mine were U shaped, so that the hatch lip slides on the U channel, and there are other bevels and stuff. Probably not to difficult to do with a router table, either, but I was able to buy replacements for my boat, and they weren't terribly expensive... Maybe Hunter has parts for you?

Finishing them is up to you. Some people like silvered teak. Others like brightwork. Know that varnish will require 8-10 coats to start, and 1-2 coats each season, and probably wooding down and starting over again in about 10 years.

Some use Cetol, which is really like a translucent paint that still allows some grain to show through. My understanding of Cetol is that it will darken over time, and after a few years with a few maintenance coats, you'll want to get it off, and it's a royal PITA to remove. If you go with Cetol, be very careful of the color - the Natural Light color does have a pronounced orange hue. It's impossible to really know which color you want... I would not use Natural Light again due to the orange, though the wood does look ok on my boat. (I'm a big fan of amber colored plain varnish on mahogany...)

If you chose to go with oil, pretty much don't bother with any teak oil, such as Watco Teak Oil available at a big box store - it will wear off very quickly. An acquaintance in FL has been using Semco on his teak, and he's been very happy with the results and longevity.

Finally, there's stuff called Honey Teak. I've had no experience with it, but I believe it's an epoxy type of finish for teak. There are testimonials that swear by it, but I believe it's somewhat expensive.

Brian

zeehag · Oct 3, 2013

my watco finishes last me one full year in tropical air. my regular oil lasts 6 months. watco is better for a fresh water barrier to teakwood.

i have been doing over 120 running feet of teak yearly and as i see fit since 2007, before i
even owned this barge. i use sea water and then oil--i used to use watco but it is not available in mexico. i wish it were so i didnt have to do my teak 2 times per year

TomY · Oct 5, 2013

Mr Mac said:
Has anyone else done this and, if so, what wood and finish did you use? What would you change looking back?

I used locally available Honduran mahogany. Nice stock to work with, stable, fairly rot resistant, strong, glues well, and reasonably priced;about 8.00/ board foot in my area of Maine.

I wanted to do a bit of my own design for better function and look(I think). The bases are 1 1/2" thick and taper to 1" round tops. This was done with two pieces of 3/4" stock epoxied together.

If you don't need to customize them, the stock wood hand rails available are a good buy once you factor in your time and materials.

Chris Patterson · Oct 6, 2013

I started the maintenance coats on my Alden "project" this year, and during the start realized that it needed to be stripped. All 54 damn feet of it. It took myself and my number one man 35 straight days to just get it in three coats. (No, it's not done, we do ten). And that's when we found this godforsaken goo underneath that is cetol. It had turned dark, and nothing I could do would restore this boat to it's former Alden glory but cut it. I call these yearly regimens 'scuff and jams', but now it was surgery. Very damn expensive surgery. I use Interlux Schooner varnish exclusively. I have zero desire to debate this, as I've used it countless times, and get paid a whole lot of money for it. It's truly cost prohibitive for most. Hell, I can't afford me. And I do a lot of repeat business, so they must like it. There has been some very good, and long books about the varnish application, and I couldn't describe the technique in four pages.
Which brings me to the sucker syrup. While I would just as soon buy orange spray bombs from walmart to duplicate the results of this garbage, I would rather had bare teak. And it will mess up good varnishes terribly. It added another four days to removing it. It may be fine if used of and by itself, "mixing" it with real varnish will cost you. And it seems to truly corrupt the teak. So NOW, I have a couple of more things on my list to ask about before I take it. "Did you ever use Cetol?" Now that's only one question out of ten that must be answered correctly, or I will not fool with it. Comes right up there with Polyurethane.

Anyway, this rant/diatribe is because the varnish is my passion. Don't short cut it. It is STRICTLY my stupid opinion, but along with walking the docks and looking at the cleated line tells me the sailing experience of most boat owners, the brightworks is the biggun. The boat can look like Fido's ass, and it the varnish is good, I figure she's/he's been around. It rarely is learned in a quart, or even after 40 quarts. So in my opinion, your rails still have plenty of potential. If they are structurally sound, varnish them. Even if the wood doesn't stand proud like the new pieces, the sailor will know if you are, or are not. I would a hundred times rather see varnish on an older piece than on new wood that the owner just threw their checkbook at. It shows passion. Patience. Tolerance. Skill. A Waterman.

Varnish the wood.

And, the varnish will not be cheated or rushed. You will pay for this transgression..

zeehag · Oct 6, 2013

rodlmao... sorry but varnish is a poor sign of does the boat actually sail.
varnish is awesome looking, but , as i am actually out here cruising--i see a cruiser with varnish i know that cruiser is a part time only sailor and spends all his or her time varnishing and none sailing.
i use sea water and oil and i use it mebbe annually. my boat SAILS. and when we sail, we sail far.
as for me--i have only been sailing some 58 or so years.

i only have over 120 running ft of teak on my boat as far as caprail and taff rail go,and another buncha feet as coach house wood.

Chris Patterson · Oct 7, 2013

more often than not, in this country, i see it as lazy. through the year, i have the time to varnish several high-end boats, usually turn about four extensive refit/recomms' off the hill, maintain three boats of my own, sea trial several very large boats, deliver a few boats, and sail every week. i must be a rookie..

TomY · Oct 7, 2013

Chris, what is the Alden project you're restoring?

Zeehag, you may be right for some boats, but you can't generalize about all boats/owners. I know boats that sail a lot and are maintained with varnish(I don't varnish during the season). Every boat has a different story to tell.

Some I know well are 50, 60, 70,... years old, and sail vast miles even today. Most are New England boats, granted, and our sun and short season are more forgiving than the tropics.

One schooner in our harbor takes 2 hour charters all season long here in Maine, then sails offshore to the BVI's for the winter, and does the same working routine down there. Few boats are worked so hard or sail as far, year round. The DIY owners simply add one more maintenance coat per year to the most sun worked areas for the tropic working season. The owners are boat builders though and understand the varnish system.

Varnish as a wood maintenance system isn't easy. And it's an unforgiving system if you don't do it correctly. On the other hand, leaving brightwork grey is easy, but the wood will slowly decay. For hand rails, that's not a bad option as they're not that hard nor expensive to replace(and hard to maintain a coating). But for more costly bright work parts on a boat, coamings, toe rails, cabins, replacement can be very expensive.

Cetol and other coatings work too, but as Chris mentions, I wouldn't mix systems. Varnish is an old system that is easy to remove. Cetol type products are an easier maintenance coating system than varnish, but you have to keep it up(as any coating, even paint) it you want it to preserve the wood below.

Brightwork, any wood in fact, can last indefinitely if it's protected by a coating.

Wood Handrails

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