Wood for Restore

[DHaranSailor]

Hello all -

Been working on my Wayfarer and getting ready to start replacing the wood that is rotted out beyond use. Going with marine grade plywood for the flooring inserts and the rudder.

Question I have is does anyone have a suggestion on what wood to use for re-building the benches, tiller, and the rudder pieces beyond the large flat spade?

Thanks in advance.

 

[31seahorse]

For the tiller I think I would choose to buy one that is already the correct shape to match what you have. Yours might be solid-one piece, but many I have seen are laminated. I think most are sold without the end fitting, so you will have some adaptation and drilling to do for attaching it.
RE the rudder: Is it exposed wood or is it covered with fiberglass? My cousin (a fantastic woodworker) and I made a solid wooden rudder out of oak. Granted, it was for a 10 foot long sailboat, but we kept in mind the idea of an airplane wing so it would let the water flow by smoothly from the thicker leading edge to the thinner aft edge. We must have done an acceptable job because I could move that boat forward in tight, windless areas by "waggling" the tiller and rudder. 31seahorse

 

[Brian S]

Traditionally, the rudder would be solid mahogany. You are probably ok using plywood for a rudder blade, but perhaps not. Keep in mind that since plywood is usually oriented with a 90º offset for each ply, the finished plywood board is only about 1/2 as strong to a lateral force. (This orientation makes plywood dimensionally stable.) 1/2 of the plies would run up and down, and be fairly strong to a side load, but 1/2 of the plies would be 90º offset, and would not be strong on a side load at all, and would in fact be very weak. Imagine how hard it is to break a paint stirrer longitudinally, but how easy it is to break across the width. The centerboard for my GP14, which is a similar design vintage to your Wayfarer, was made with laminated solid mahogany strips. The grain of all pieces is oriented longitudinally, but each piece was likely end-for-ended, so that the board will resist warping, but is still considerably stronger to lateral force than plywood. Imagine trying to right the boat from a capsize, and the plywood board breaks off because it is only 1/2 as strong. A rudder foil is probably ok, being smaller size, and probably not seeing as much lateral lifting force as a centerboard, but it too could break. My boat came to me with a plywood rudder, but a second boat I purchased had the solid mahogany rudder. I sold the second with a newly fabricated okoume BS1088 board, and kept the solid one for my 1st boat being restored

I suppose you could cut your new rudder blade with both plies 45º to the length of the blade, but I still think it would not be as strong as a solid board.

Seats I have seen on Wayfarers (and my GP14) are solid mahogany slats. You can see that very nicely on this pic of a Wayfarer:

The floorboards in my GP14 are cedar slats screwed into the mahogany frames. (Oh, right, it is a wood GP14. ) I have seen plenty of boats with plywood floorboards, usually with riser pieces fastened underneath every 8" or 12" or so to lift the boards up off the floor of the boat. You could consider painting with non-skid paint, or maybe try it old skool and varnish. While still wet, sprinkle granulated sugar on the varnish. When dry, wash the sugar away with water, leaving a stippled non-skid varnish finish.

 

[Daveinet]

I would suggest using Brazilian teak. Its nearly the same as reàl teak and just as rot resistant. Your good hardwood stores should supply it or get it online. It is often used for for forward decking. I've used it for making grab handles. Its a little hard to cut, you need good tools and sharp blàdes.

 

[Brian S]

My cousin (a fantastic woodworker) and I made a solid wooden rudder out of oak.

If you use oak, make certain it is white oak, and NOT red oak! Red oak has tubules that run the length of the grain, and soak up water like a sponge, leading quickly to rot.

Personally, I think white oak might be a bit flexy for a rudder blade, maybe not.

Tillers are often ash - my solid tiller is ash. Ruddercraft makes ash/mahogany laminated tillers.

 

[DHaranSailor]

For the tiller I think I would choose to buy one that is already the correct shape to match what you have. Yours might be solid-one piece, but many I have seen are laminated. I think most are sold without the end fitting, so you will have some adaptation and drilling to do for attaching it.
RE the rudder: Is it exposed wood or is it covered with fiberglass? My cousin (a fantastic woodworker) and I made a solid wooden rudder out of oak. Granted, it was for a 10 foot long sailboat, but we kept in mind the idea of an airplane wing so it would let the water flow by smoothly from the thicker leading edge to the thinner aft edge. We must have done an acceptable job because I could move that boat forward in tight, windless areas by "waggling" the tiller and rudder. 31seahorse

Happen to know a good place to source one? I have only seen one that I can think of and the price was a little higher than I'd like to pay.

Exposed wood. The swing keel is in good shape but the rudder is getting very very close to the end of it's life and I don't want to go out and have to rely on it. What oak did you use? I see someone here is suggesting white oak.

 

[DHaranSailor]

Traditionally, the rudder would be solid mahogany. You are probably ok using plywood for a rudder blade, but perhaps not. Keep in mind that since plywood is usually oriented with a 90º offset for each ply, the finished plywood board is only about 1/2 as strong to a lateral force. (This orientation makes plywood dimensionally stable.) 1/2 of the plies would run up and down, and be fairly strong to a side load, but 1/2 of the plies would be 90º offset, and would not be strong on a side load at all, and would in fact be very weak. Imagine how hard it is to break a paint stirrer longitudinally, but how easy it is to break across the width. The centerboard for my GP14, which is a similar design vintage to your Wayfarer, was made with laminated solid mahogany strips. The grain of all pieces is oriented longitudinally, but each piece was likely end-for-ended, so that the board will resist warping, but is still considerably stronger to lateral force than plywood. Imagine trying to right the boat from a capsize, and the plywood board breaks off because it is only 1/2 as strong. A rudder foil is probably ok, being smaller size, and probably not seeing as much lateral lifting force as a centerboard, but it too could break. My boat came to me with a plywood rudder, but a second boat I purchased had the solid mahogany rudder. I sold the second with a newly fabricated okoume BS1088 board, and kept the solid one for my 1st boat being restored

I suppose you could cut your new rudder blade with both plies 45º to the length of the blade, but I still think it would not be as strong as a solid board.

Seats I have seen on Wayfarers (and my GP14) are solid mahogany slats. You can see that very nicely on this pic of a Wayfarer:

The floorboards in my GP14 are cedar slats screwed into the mahogany frames. (Oh, right, it is a wood GP14. ) I have seen plenty of boats with plywood floorboards, usually with riser pieces fastened underneath every 8" or 12" or so to lift the boards up off the floor of the boat. You could consider painting with non-skid paint, or maybe try it old skool and varnish. While still wet, sprinkle granulated sugar on the varnish. When dry, wash the sugar away with water, leaving a stippled non-skid varnish finish.

Thanks for the advice on the plywood. I will laminate some boards and make it out of solid wood. Mahogany for the seats sounds good, do you know if I could use that on the rudder below the water line as well?

I like the slats idea for the floor, but I think for at least this season doing the plywood is more my skill level and fits my timeline. Nicer floors would be good winter project for me.

 

[DHaranSailor]

If you use oak, make certain it is white oak, and NOT red oak! Red oak has tubules that run the length of the grain, and soak up water like a sponge, leading quickly to rot.

Personally, I think white oak might be a bit flexy for a rudder blade, maybe not.

Tillers are often ash - my solid tiller is ash. Ruddercraft makes ash/mahogany laminated tillers.

Thanks for the clue on Ruddercraft. They don't have any Wayfarer listed as a default but sent them a message about if they ever make them.

 

[Brian S]

Yes, my rudder and centerboard on the GP14 are both mahogany, and are well varnished. (I'm more obsessive about my varnish than anyone I know, but some on forums think my 8 or 9 coats of varnish is a good base before you get to 12 ) However, both the GP14 and Wayfarer are really trailer boats. As such, I don't keep the GP14 in a slip or on a mooring. For a week's vacation, I'd keep her in the water, but not for a season. That being said, I also know of fiberglass Wayfarers kept in slip at our freshwater lake. If it was a kick up rudder, I'd tip the blade up out of the water, or pull the whole rudder and store it in the boat if it was kept in the water.

 

[DHaranSailor]

Brian,

That is the pan with mine. She will live on the trailer outside the one week a year when we do a vacation or maybe a weekend here and there when we go camping.

 

[DJN51]

Call Owl Hardwood in Desplanes Il they can answer all question about what wood to use,Great people to work with.

 

[DHaranSailor]

Call Owl Hardwood in Desplanes Il they can answer all question about what wood to use,Great people to work with.

Good to know. I found them yesterday and called on pricing for teak (out of my range) for the bench and the plywood. I was talking to the one in Lombard. Fairly knowledgeable all around or is it worth the trip to Des Planes specifically?

 

[DJN51]

Same Company

 

[DHaranSailor]

Same Company

Okay. Didn't know if there was just a big sailor there who had a lot of knowledge. Like going to the downtown West Marine and talking to (Dan or is it Don?) who splices bridles as a side job.

 

[patrickince]

My Dad always used butternut to make canoe paddles. It is light, strong and resists rot. It may be a good option for a rudder.

 

[Daveinet]

Good to know. I found them yesterday and called on pricing for teak (out of my range) for the bench and the plywood. I was talking to the one in Lombard. Fairly knowledgeable all around or is it worth the trip to Des Planes specifically?

Did you ask about any Teak alternatives? That is where I got the Brazillion Teak. (from the Lombard store) Yes, real Teak is super expensive, but I beleive the stuff you want to look for is called Cumaru. It is no where near the price of true Teak. It is 280% harder than Red Oak.

Just for grins, my daughter turned some drum sticks out of the scrap. They have a very authoritative sound.

 

[DHaranSailor]

I will have to call them again on the alternatives. Just checked their inventory listing on site and they don't have either of the ones you mentioned listed. Will give them a call later on today and see what options that they may have.

 

[DHaranSailor]

Here are some pictures of the condition that the current rudder is in.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/132671057@N02/7pQS8Z

 

[Daveinet]

One other observation is that the rudder is not really a true foil. This will make it stall very easily, and it will be difficult maintain control, especially with changing winds.

I have a suggestion, search part number 20493000. Its a HobieCat rudder. You should be able to find them for less than 150 bucks. It is a foil shape. You should be able to adapt it to your mount. I believe it is larger than your current rudder. I can go measure my Hobie to let you know its size. (my Hobie has seen its better days, but still could be sailed) Technically if you purchased a second one, you could adapt it for the center board, depending on how deep it needs to go.

Here is another place you may want to look at;
http://www.jowoodworks.com/archives/category/available-online/page/3

While it can be very cool to build your own, sometimes its not worth the effort.

 

[DHaranSailor]

Daveinet,

I agree with your last statement. As much as I'd like to make it. In interest of at least making it to the water once this season I am definitely open to parting out some of the work. I do want to stay within the class rules so use the Hobie option isn't one that would work for me personally.