Wonder How Many Marine Industries...

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Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
...will be around 24 months from now? :cry: Some of us remember the shake-out of the early 80's. It was devastating to the SoCal marine industry and many of the larger brands disappeared. No doubt this will have a similar effect. At the Long Beach Boat Show, I was listening to a manager of a large brokerage speaking on his cell phone wondering how the relief package would play out before congress; talking for a good 35 minutes. There were five financial firms represented; only one managed to show up. The smaller marine vendors we rely on were diminished by ...?... maybe a third to a half. I think I have noticed a slowing of posting action on the SBO sites. I would expect that as people focus on larger priorities. OK, so DON'T please turn this into a political thread since the dynamics are already in place regardless and the question is really how we think things will change. Last time I remember the smaller chandleries folding or being brought up by WM. Local sail lofts were consolidated into larger entities. That seemed to work out over the long term. Boat builders consolidated or went away. Consolidated builders didn't do well either as I recall and a few of those went away too. I think most of the marine electronics vendors went away with the few exceptions like Shakespeare who absorbed smaller firms. I suspect Hun/Bene/Cat will survive by slashing and hunkering down. I suspect the smaller builders won't. I would guess the electronic firms who have a large footprint outside the marine industries will make it but that those who are not diversified won't, even large ones. Edge to Garmin and Furuno. Sailmakers who have lower cost offshore facilities make it, local lofts who do their own lofting don't. Maybe a resurgence in steel and aluminum construction for smaller builders. Any other thoughts? (This diversion brought to you in a hope you won't watch your 401K for a little while ;) )
 
Jul 24, 2005
261
MacGregor Mac26D Richardson, TX; Dana Point, CA
Sailboats...

All boats take $$ to run.. Our lovely sailboats take a LOT LESS for use than the "stinkpots".... but that likely won't do us that much good... Power boaters support the bulk of the infrastructure.

I suspect any - and EVERY fee you can imagine will go up a lot... A lot of services will vanish... I would REALLY be worried if I were a marine oriented business person and heavily extended. I hope that business folks will have the time to "pull back" a bit.

--jerry
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Rick:

I don't disagree with you. This current problem is more of a psychological downturn than we saw during the previous recession. We have all lost a lot of money on paper. Some may have lost a lot out of their bank accounts. Once the government gets their heads out of the asses, they will talk to the real economists and find out what should have been done.

B of A/Countrywide has lowered their interest rates on their home loans so many of their customers can stay in their homes and these loans many not need to be turned over to our government.

Once the incentives are in place and we see how they are working people will start thinking a positive view of the economy and "hopefully" everyone will start spending again.

I know of three boat sails from my direct contacts within the last 60 days. I don't think the market is quite as soft as the press would lead us to believe. Once we have commercial paper flowing again we may see the entire system flowing properly again.

There are a lot of IF's here, but IF everyone decides that it is time to park their boat (sail & power included) things are NOT going to get better soon. Luckily we are in the bottom of the trough right now. Christmas may be slow but we should all look forward to an early warm spring so everyone starts refitting their boats and doing what we have done year after year.
 

Phil Herring

Alien
Mar 25, 1997
4,924
- - Bainbridge Island
Yeah, hard to know what's coming

The aftershocks will tell the tale. Keep an eye out for folks on the forum losing jobs. When the tech bubble burst and through '02 you could see the economy pretty clearly in the forums. People giving up boats, losing jobs, looking for work, etc. Haven't seen much of that yet.

Oddly, we just had a very strong week. Granted we had a good sale but it appears we had a similar sale exactly one year ago. We're actually way ahead of October '07. Go figure.

I think your observation about forum traffic is spot on, Rick. I also think hurricanes have taken their toll on boating in the south. It would be interesting to hear from folks along the gulf coast about whether boating is coming back in that region, or not.

One thing for sure, it's going to be a challenging time. We're making contingency plans in case things get bad. I agree, companies with big growth plans in progress are going to be in trouble, IMHO.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Re: Yeah, hard to know what's coming

Phil:

I tried to make your week. One large sail cover & a pedestal cover. Thank you for the recession discount of 15% on the canvas. I have ordered a sail cover for my previous boat and it still looks good.

Your success of this site is based a good products with a great customer services mechanism.
 

Phil Herring

Alien
Mar 25, 1997
4,924
- - Bainbridge Island
Re: Yeah, hard to know what's coming

Yeah, that is a big boom on the V36! But on the flip side, the spinnaker for that boat is just about the least expensive we carry. :)
 
Jun 2, 2004
3,650
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
Yacht Clubs are Hurting Too

At least the ones around here. Between the old folks going away and fewer younger members joining our numbers are down.

The Coast Guard Auxiliary has seen a sharp decrease in the enrollment of folks for the boating safety courses as well.

The price of gas had more to do with it than anything else I believe but new boat sales are definitely going to take a hit over the perceived credit crises.

Things are looking up the price of gas is way down and the markets will steady out and be back after the election. Now is the time to put money in the market not in a boat.
 
Sep 26, 2008
566
- - Noank CT.
one positive (maybe)

While this economy is in the tank one positive I have noticed is that my marina is holding the line on slip fees and winter storage fees for the upcoming season. Supply and demand thing, better to have no increase and your slips rented then get increase and have more empty slips not producing revenue. On the other hand no business can operate without covering cost and a profit. Got to wonder if this might trickle over to the rest of the marine industries as well??:confused: Would be interesting to know what other marina's are doing in other parts of the country ?
 
Mar 21, 2004
2,175
Hunter 356 Cobb Island, MD
Be at Annapolis tomorrow

It will be interesting to see how well it is represented, but expect it to be as big as ever. This show is planned 6-12 months in-advance. I'll be watching the crowds to see what they are into. It would be interesting to attend the power boat show the weekend of Oct 18. Would imagine the crowds not so big.

I leave for Berkeley, CA Friday morning and expect to be sailing on SF bay Sunday. Might see the Maltese Falcon:) but not up close and personal.
Going sailing with Gary http://www.ayesail.net/sailing/GaryHall/Adventures.htm

Back to Annapolis, So of the rest of you who will be at the show Sat,Sun, Mon keep an eye open to report the action of the crowds and if they are buying.
 
Apr 22, 2001
497
Hunter 420 Norfolk, VA
Rick, Jim ...

I too will be driving up to the Annapolis Boat Show tomorrow ( VIP Day)... I'll post Fri. my impression of crowd size and # of vendors as compared to last year, and other observations.
I'm told Hunter will be introducing it's new Hunter 50 (CC version of the Hunter 49). Apparently priced at just a 'tad' over $500k, it should fit right into everyone's 401K budget.... Brochure anyone??

Jim, will I see you at the Hunter display trading in 'Java' for 'Java II' ( or should that be 'Java 401,K-II' ) ???... named after K-2, the world's second highest mountain (of debt) :dance::dance:
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: Rick, Jim ...

The economy is already taking a toll. I have had half as many jobs this year as last year and they have been half as big. Our marina has apparenty put a hold on improvements and we have had slips available all summer. I have work this fall that requires fair weather so my fall boating will be sacrificed to the great god Econ. I know contractors that have sold equipment to make payroll and many of our non-resident boat owners, those that drive 75-100 miles to the marina don't come down as often and stay longer when they do.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Re: Rick, Jim ...

Boating, etc. is based on 'discretionary income', or how much 'excess' beyond food/clothing/shelter levels one possesses.

The VALUE of money is arbitrary and is based on 'confidence'.

Clearly and elementally, our newfound national 'tribalism' is the root cause.

One doesnt need a crystal ball to predict the short term future and well beyond on this one.
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
Well looking through Yacthworld there are 25 NEW C309s at in stock at dealers as old as 2007


The question becomes is this normal and how many of the other sizes and brands are sitting unsold at dealers going into the winter


I also do see a lot of new sailboats at other local dealers getting re- wraped for the winter
 
Jun 3, 2004
309
Prindle 18, beach catamaran Chicago (North Edgebrook), IL
I lost my job a couple of weeks ago (compensation manager/consultant). I have had more luck looking for jobs in Ohio and Wisconsin than in Chicago, that I can't figure out. I am glad I bought a cheap boat with cash, I might sell the car, but I will have a van and a trailer-sailer in the driveway (maybe my dad's driveway).

I agree we are going to see a lot of vendors bite it, we are going to see less diverse new offerings. Support the Chandlery.
 
Jun 19, 2004
512
Catalina 387 Hull # 24 Port Charlotte, Florida
Well I guess I'll Head up to the boat show

and have a look see around. May be some good deal, may not be. Guess I am lucky that the majority of my stock I bought a few years ago when the market was down in the mid 6000's. Got a way to go before I will get real nervous. It being an election year doesn't help the market out a lot either :confused: no telling what tomorrow or next year will bring.
Glad I didn't take out all those 2nds, and 3rds, and ...etc. home improvement loans and run up 40-50K worth of credit card debt like a lot of people did. We may have to break out a sweater or two this winter, but at least we own what we own and aren't in hock up to our eyeballs :D
 

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,736
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Repos

I know someone who does a lot of boat loans. She says that a lot of power boat owners have just come in and dropped off the keys because they can't make the payments. she also says they can't give the boats away unless they are 100 footers. Those still move.
 

Manny

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Oct 5, 2006
983
Hunter 82? 37 Cutter Wherever the wind takes me
I'm wondering about this also. I'll be at the boat show this weekend and I am really curious to see how the crowds are, and also vendor participation.

Manny
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
We were at the Miami Sail Expo and it was fairly sparse for accessories vendors. There were a realitively good showing from the sailboat mfg. That may be a little different now that we are near the bottom of the barrel (don't we hope).
 

abe

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Jan 2, 2007
736
- - channel islands
Well, on a happy note....more slips available than before...

While this economy is in the tank one positive I have noticed is that my marina is holding the line on slip fees and winter storage fees for the upcoming season. Supply and demand thing, better to have no increase and your slips rented then get increase and have more empty slips not producing revenue. On the other hand no business can operate without covering cost and a profit. Got to wonder if this might trickle over to the rest of the marine industries as well??:confused: Would be interesting to know what other marina's are doing in other parts of the country ?
On a sour note...our local Ventura politicians think that boat owners are rich and they keep raising the land leases on which the marinas sit. The result is that more and more smaller boat owners...25ft slips have disappeared. To make matters worse they force Marinas to raise their prices even when they don't want to in order to "keep compatative". This is what has happened with a nice well run private marina Pacific Corinthians.....they are happy to keep their fees down, but that county mandates them to raise their fees.
I remember one of the things that killed the boat industry in the 80s was the so called "luxury tax". It was to make the rich pay...but the ones who suffered the most were the workers in the boat industry. I hope the government doesn't come with an idea like that again or raise taxes on small and medium businesses. On further note, because of workers comp/ taxes/environmental laws Catalina closed down in Chatsworth plant.....again I hope the Federal Government learns from the mistakes of CA.
abe
 
Jun 5, 2004
160
Hunter 27_73-83 Harrington, Maine
In Northeast Maine

Hinkley laid off 50 workers at the jet boat facility. lobster is 2.30 a pound off the boat, the buyers are having trouble selling it. Traffic to Acadia was lighter than usual this summer. Things are slowing down.
 
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