wire gauge question

[starter beauxt]

In exploring the electrical system in my (new to me) 1981 hunter 22, I found that the positive line from the battery and corroded so badly it had broken completely off of it's crudely spliced connection to the fuse panel. When I look at catalina wiring diagrams I've found drawings showing #10 wire from the battery to the panel, the Hunter diagrams show #4- why such a big difference? And, in my case, the crude splice joins multiple wires with only a #14 making it all the way to the fuse panel. How would the #4 wire attach to the panel if it made it all the way there? I don't see a way to bring a #4 wire into the stock panel- what am I missing here?
THANKS!

 

[Bill Roosa]

Hey Beauxt
not at all sure why you are looking at a catalina wiring diagram to tell you the size of your Hunter wiring. the Hunter clearly had to handle more amps and so needed a larger wire. The main feed from the battery + to the panel is sized to allow the panel to have all the current it has switches for (including blank slots). There is a school of thought that you really don't need, for instance, to have both the anchor light and the steaming light on at the same time and other types of things but that analysis can really only drop your required wire size at most a single gage. it does not address the idea of additional appliances on the panel.
My advice to you is follow the hunter diagram for your boat and use the 4 gage wire as the main supply to the panel.
I'm not sure what you are asying about the only wire making it all the way to the panel (from the batts??) is a 14 gage. Not sure what kinds of loads you have on a 22 but a 14 sounds pretty small for a main supply from the batts.
As for how to bring the 4 gage to the panel, welcome to the wonderfull world of boat maintenance. Seriously you can probably use the 14 gage as a fishing line. to pull the 4 gage to the panel. don't forget to tie a stout string onto the 14 gage at the end you will not be pulling from so you have a fishing line for later use. As for attaching the 4 gage to the panel, there are lugs for that at WM

 

[starter beauxt]

Thanks!

Thanks Bill, I assumed that following the hunter diagaram would be the right way to go! And, yes, you were correct to understand that the +wire coming from the battery starts as a #4 and then becomes a tangled mess of wire nuts and electrical tape where the previous owner tied in some new electronics ahead of the fuse panel. The only 'incoming' wire to the panel is currently a 14 gauge wire. So, I guess I'll go look over it again and see if I can find a location to tie in the #4 wire. Thanks again for your help!

 

[Maine Sail]

Thanks Bill, I assumed that following the hunter diagaram would be the right way to go! And, yes, you were correct to understand that the +wire coming from the battery starts as a #4 and then becomes a tangled mess of wire nuts and electrical tape where the previous owner tied in some new electronics ahead of the fuse panel. The only 'incoming' wire to the panel is currently a 14 gauge wire. So, I guess I'll go look over it again and see if I can find a location to tie in the #4 wire. Thanks again for your help!

Ouch that's pretty scary. Hunter sized it at 4GA for a reason and while you may be able to get away with less bigger allows for upgrades in the future. You may also want to update your boat to current standards and add fuse protection at your battery bank. 14GA wire for most any panel feed is grossly under sized. The ABYC standard for panel feeds is a maximum of a 3% voltage drop. Hunter likely built to this standard depending upon the year of your vessel. A 14GA wire can do a maximum of 6 feet one way or 12 feet round trip to just about 10 amps total. In contrast 4 GA can handle 117 amps over 12 feet of wire at a 3% drop.

4 GA is likely overkill for what you currently have but was probably sized for the "potential" of the panel as Bill has noted, and is the correct way to do it.. Don't forget your ground wire as this is a LOOP.. a 4 GA pos wire will only help if you have a 4 GA neg wire too..

 

[starter beauxt]

Good deal. I think my current strategy is to pick up a new fuse panel. The new ones have clear locations for an incoming wire of that gage. That, and a negative terminal bus, and I should be able to untangle the mess. I guess it's better I found all of this now, while by boat sits on the trailer in the backyard, then have all of my electronics go out while on the water! Since I'm essentially landlocked up here in central Alabama, I'll probably have to hope NAPA has suitable replacement parts.

 

[starter beauxt]

Ok, after some looking, the only place that carries a switched fuse block in my area is Bass Pro Shops. I'm about to have to drive the 40 minutes out there to look at it. It's the EXACT same one I currently have, but it's the only way I've figured out determine if or how you can attach a 4 gauge wire to the stock panel. Ugh.

 

[Clark]

I used to own a Hunter 22 and cannot conceive of the need for a #4 wire. As Maine posted, it will handle over 100A. Look at your panel and add up all of the current requirements and NOT what the fuses/breakers are rated for. Take that average and assume the same for any vacant positions. I suspect you'll come up with a total that approximates the need for 8 to 10AWG. Also, you'd be wise to use tinned wire even though you'll probably be in fresh water.

Remember, any heavy loads like outboard starter or DC-AC inverter or 12 VDC coffee pot or hair dryer will be wired directly to the battery with their own circuit protection.
As an example; our 1996 Hunter 280 specs the following:
DC Main: # 6AWG to a 40A breaker which supports
Cabin Lights (7 ea)
Water Pressure Pump
Anchor
Steaming
Navigation
Instruments
VHF
Fans (3)
Stereo (Aux)
Aux
The bilge pump is on its own circuit rated for #12 AWG

 

[starter beauxt]

Thanks Clark,
All I've got on my boat is the stock lights (hope to retrofit to LED's soon) a car stereo, cigarette lighter, little fish finder/depth meter, and bilge pump. I was just going off the owner's manual which spec's #4. As I found it, the #4 ran to a bolt which someone used to downsize the wire from #4 to #12 or #16. All of that was electrical taped together and left hanging. Since I'm trying to clean things up, and the switched fuse panel is the only electrical load on the boat (no electric outboard start). I was hoping to tie the panel to the battery but just couldn't see a reasonable way to downsize the wire to the switch (fused) panel (or see why I need that large a wire at all). My current strategy is to install a new fuse block to receive the #4 (I don't mind having room to grow) and then run the fish finder and stereo to the new fuse block (since they have on/off swithches and don't need the secondary switch) and then run the existing panel to the fuse block and fuse accordingly. This would leave me TONS of room to grow (the fuse block would have 4 or 6 positions and I'd be emptying my switch panel some as well) and give me, what feels like, a safer way to transition from the 4ga to the much smaller fuse panel. Any thoughts?

 

[Clark]

Just some random thoughts here :
I think all proper electrical systems are designed to have a way to de-energize the circuit at the source. IOW, a breaker or fuse/switch should be provided for each branch, whether the load has its own switch or not. This prevents having wires running throughout the boat that are energized all the time. Does your new "fuse block" have a switch for each position and will it be mounted for ready access to turn those branches on/off? I'm thinking of the stereo and FF here and your new feed to your existing panel.

The 12V Aux (cigarette lighter) may have to support some pretty heavy loads. Make sure it is wired and fused accordingly. The stereo is similar; they can draw quite a bit when you crank up the tunes

Feel free to PM me is you want to correspond "off line".

Clark

 

[Sail32]

Buy "This Old Boat" by Don Casey, it has a great section on marine wiring. Also, check out Defender Marine online at Defender.com for supplies.

 

[Maine Sail]

Buy "This Old Boat" by Don Casey, it has a great section on marine wiring. Also, check out Defender Marine online at Defender.com for supplies.

Let's not forget our gracious hosts here at SailboatOwners.com. The prices on electrical supplies right here are excellent!!