Hello all, I will (sadly) be winterizing the yanmar 2gm20f in my 1989 Hunter 30G this weekend and have read the great suggestion of installing a "T" with some extra hose and a shut off valve into my raw water intake to make it easier to run the anti-freeze into the engine. The problem is is that I am 1.5 hrs from the boat and am at a loss as to exactly what I will need to accomplish this. I'm not sure of the size of the water hose that leads from the intake to the engine and I would like some guidence as to what type of hose to pick up and the fittings that I will need. I will have limited resources once I am up at the lake and would like to have everything together ahead of time. The more specific the information the better. Thanks in advance. Tim
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Winterizing the 2GM20F
While you could certainly plumb a "T" into the raw water intake hose for winterization purposes, I'm not quite sure that this is either needed or actually makes winterizing the engine with antifreeze much easier. To add antifreeze to my 2GM20F, I simply close the raw water intake seacock, take the hose off the water strainer, connect another piece of 6-ft long garden hose (5/8 inch inside diameter)to the water strainer intake, put the other end of hose in a bucket filled with -100 antifreeze, and start the engine. What could be simpler? Yet if you want to plumb a "T" into the raw water intake hose, all you need is a "T" with barbs at each end to fit a 5/8 inch hose (at least on my boat, not sure all boats are the same...., and two (four would be better) stainless hose clamps. Just cut the intake hose, insert the barbs, reconnect the hoses to it, and tighten the clamps. Since I am a believe that "stuff happens" when you least expect it, I like to avoid cutting hoses and adding another potential failure point to my boat. My guess is that you could add antifreeze to your engine in about the same amount of time with either system since both are equally easy.
While you could certainly plumb a "T" into the raw water intake hose for winterization purposes, I'm not quite sure that this is either needed or actually makes winterizing the engine with antifreeze much easier. To add antifreeze to my 2GM20F, I simply close the raw water intake seacock, take the hose off the water strainer, connect another piece of 6-ft long garden hose (5/8 inch inside diameter)to the water strainer intake, put the other end of hose in a bucket filled with -100 antifreeze, and start the engine. What could be simpler? Yet if you want to plumb a "T" into the raw water intake hose, all you need is a "T" with barbs at each end to fit a 5/8 inch hose (at least on my boat, not sure all boats are the same...., and two (four would be better) stainless hose clamps. Just cut the intake hose, insert the barbs, reconnect the hoses to it, and tighten the clamps. Since I am a believe that "stuff happens" when you least expect it, I like to avoid cutting hoses and adding another potential failure point to my boat. My guess is that you could add antifreeze to your engine in about the same amount of time with either system since both are equally easy.
Tim If you go to the link and buy the
correct size diverter valve, three hose barbs and six hose clamps. you will be able to switch from lake water intake to bucket water intake with the turn of a single valve. The size depends entirely on what size is presently used. On my boat with a 10 horse engine I use 5/8 inch heater hose and bronze fittings. It is the hose size that dictates the barb size. http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/2,621.html
correct size diverter valve, three hose barbs and six hose clamps. you will be able to switch from lake water intake to bucket water intake with the turn of a single valve. The size depends entirely on what size is presently used. On my boat with a 10 horse engine I use 5/8 inch heater hose and bronze fittings. It is the hose size that dictates the barb size. http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/2,621.html
My thought too
Warren, Couldn't agree with you more. Why introduce three more failure points in the cooling system. Plus taking the hose off the through hull once a year stops it from sticking to it permanently so it's easier to take off if you have to check to see if the through hull is plugged with a plastic bag or something. Rick B393 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/ 393 group
Warren, Couldn't agree with you more. Why introduce three more failure points in the cooling system. Plus taking the hose off the through hull once a year stops it from sticking to it permanently so it's easier to take off if you have to check to see if the through hull is plugged with a plastic bag or something. Rick B393 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/ 393 group
I agree with Warren
I'm recalling the old axiom, "The simplest solution is usually the best solution." All those extra hose clamps, barbed nipples and T valve are potential leaks waiting to happen, plus another valve to accidentally leave closed and cause engine to overheat or worse. When I winterize my 2GM20 it takes all of 30 seconds to do it the "old fashioned" way. I'll stick with it 'cuz I'm just an old fashioned guy, I guess.
I'm recalling the old axiom, "The simplest solution is usually the best solution." All those extra hose clamps, barbed nipples and T valve are potential leaks waiting to happen, plus another valve to accidentally leave closed and cause engine to overheat or worse. When I winterize my 2GM20 it takes all of 30 seconds to do it the "old fashioned" way. I'll stick with it 'cuz I'm just an old fashioned guy, I guess.
Wouldn't this tee fitting also become
an emergency bilge pump should the worst happen, or is the raw water intake volume just too little to matter to a sinking sailer. I'm all for not introducing more hose clamps but it seems like something worth having. Another bonus would be that you could cool the motor from a bucket if the intake plugged. It might beat rowing or paying for a tow. "OK" shoot me down now. Oh yeah, I winterize on the hard with a heater pointed at stinky.
an emergency bilge pump should the worst happen, or is the raw water intake volume just too little to matter to a sinking sailer. I'm all for not introducing more hose clamps but it seems like something worth having. Another bonus would be that you could cool the motor from a bucket if the intake plugged. It might beat rowing or paying for a tow. "OK" shoot me down now. Oh yeah, I winterize on the hard with a heater pointed at stinky.
Easier solution
Simply pour the anti-freeze into the raw water jar as the enging chugs along. When filled, kill the engine.
Simply pour the anti-freeze into the raw water jar as the enging chugs along. When filled, kill the engine.
K.I.S.S?
..........reminds me of the wisdom of keeping it simple. Good points, thank you all for the input. Tim
..........reminds me of the wisdom of keeping it simple. Good points, thank you all for the input. Tim
For TJ
So let's say you are taking on water at such a rate that it is overwhelming your bilge pump -- and so you want to use your raw water pump on the engine as an emergency bilge pump? If you had plumbed a "T" into the raw water hose that opens and closes with a hose cap, you'd first have to shut off the engine before opening the hose cap to screw in your handy emergency hose that you are going to run back into the boat to suck up the in-rushing water. But first you'd have to re-start the engine (which would have over heated and added yet more water into your boat if you simply opened the hose cap with the engine running). Of course, you could have plumbed in an extra inline ball valve, too,if you are in love with adding lots of extra plumbing here and there. Following this same line of reasoning, you could also just shut down the engine, pull off the intake hose to your raw water pump, connect that same emergency hose you have just hanging around directly to the water pump and then put the other end into the rising water, after you turn the unflooded engine back on.... If your mind works like this, you would be far, far better off just buying and installing an emergency high capacity bilge pump in the first place...
So let's say you are taking on water at such a rate that it is overwhelming your bilge pump -- and so you want to use your raw water pump on the engine as an emergency bilge pump? If you had plumbed a "T" into the raw water hose that opens and closes with a hose cap, you'd first have to shut off the engine before opening the hose cap to screw in your handy emergency hose that you are going to run back into the boat to suck up the in-rushing water. But first you'd have to re-start the engine (which would have over heated and added yet more water into your boat if you simply opened the hose cap with the engine running). Of course, you could have plumbed in an extra inline ball valve, too,if you are in love with adding lots of extra plumbing here and there. Following this same line of reasoning, you could also just shut down the engine, pull off the intake hose to your raw water pump, connect that same emergency hose you have just hanging around directly to the water pump and then put the other end into the rising water, after you turn the unflooded engine back on.... If your mind works like this, you would be far, far better off just buying and installing an emergency high capacity bilge pump in the first place...
you've convinced me - maybe
YOu've made some very good arguments for not installing a winterizing t on the engine intake, which I was planning to do when I winterize this year. BUT, on my head raw water intake, I am still trying to decide. I replaced all my hoses last year for the sanitation system, and they are NOT NOT NOT easy to just pull off, winterize, and put back on. When we winterized last year (a couple of months after replacing hoses), we actually ended up having to cut the intake hose off, losing an inch or so of it, then heating the new end to get it back on. I still have a little slack in this hose, but after a few years, I won't have anything else I can afford to cut off. So I think a T would be helpful for the head raw water intake. Thoughts?
YOu've made some very good arguments for not installing a winterizing t on the engine intake, which I was planning to do when I winterize this year. BUT, on my head raw water intake, I am still trying to decide. I replaced all my hoses last year for the sanitation system, and they are NOT NOT NOT easy to just pull off, winterize, and put back on. When we winterized last year (a couple of months after replacing hoses), we actually ended up having to cut the intake hose off, losing an inch or so of it, then heating the new end to get it back on. I still have a little slack in this hose, but after a few years, I won't have anything else I can afford to cut off. So I think a T would be helpful for the head raw water intake. Thoughts?
I winterize the head lines from outside
Hi Sherry, The water supply lines to my Head are hard to get off as well. I decided not to use a Tee for the same reasons cited earlier - to avoid more connections to leak and fail. Instead I have made up a hose of clear plastic tubing one end of which has a fitting that is of a size that fits snugly just inside the outside of the through hull. I have a helper under the boat (which is on its cradle of course) press the fitting against the through hull for the head intake with the other end in a jug of non toxic anti freeze and I pump it through the head. (a little teflon grease could be used to prevent air inleakage but I have never had to do this). I also use the same fitting for my deck wash pump and my seawater pump for the galley. The fitting I use is a straight coupler for (if I remember correctly) 1/2" or perhaps 5/8" tubing which happens to fit quite snugly and works without problem. It will obviously depend on the size of your through hulls.
Hi Sherry, The water supply lines to my Head are hard to get off as well. I decided not to use a Tee for the same reasons cited earlier - to avoid more connections to leak and fail. Instead I have made up a hose of clear plastic tubing one end of which has a fitting that is of a size that fits snugly just inside the outside of the through hull. I have a helper under the boat (which is on its cradle of course) press the fitting against the through hull for the head intake with the other end in a jug of non toxic anti freeze and I pump it through the head. (a little teflon grease could be used to prevent air inleakage but I have never had to do this). I also use the same fitting for my deck wash pump and my seawater pump for the galley. The fitting I use is a straight coupler for (if I remember correctly) 1/2" or perhaps 5/8" tubing which happens to fit quite snugly and works without problem. It will obviously depend on the size of your through hulls.
in water year round
Malcolm, Good suggestion, but I stay in the water all year; I don't haul out for winter. Thanks! Sherry
Malcolm, Good suggestion, but I stay in the water all year; I don't haul out for winter. Thanks! Sherry
take the hose off the raw water pump end
Sherry, take this end off-it's not a barbed fitting and should come off easily. add a length of hose into a bucket/bottle of af and run the engine. I use a 4 gal plastic jug-wm sells it, with valve and hose-and put it above the engine and run it thru- you need to run enough AF thru to clear the engine, heat exchanger, and fill the waterlift muffler with af. the hose from the engine to the thru hull should be fine without draining since you're in the water. after you're done, be sure to reconnect the supply hose
Sherry, take this end off-it's not a barbed fitting and should come off easily. add a length of hose into a bucket/bottle of af and run the engine. I use a 4 gal plastic jug-wm sells it, with valve and hose-and put it above the engine and run it thru- you need to run enough AF thru to clear the engine, heat exchanger, and fill the waterlift muffler with af. the hose from the engine to the thru hull should be fine without draining since you're in the water. after you're done, be sure to reconnect the supply hose
For Chuck, and others...
My 2GM20F only needs one gal of antifreeze to protect the whole seawater side of the system....
My 2GM20F only needs one gal of antifreeze to protect the whole seawater side of the system....
Thank you all, next question is.................
.....can I use the pink stuff or should I get the -100 stuff? Thank you!
.....can I use the pink stuff or should I get the -100 stuff? Thank you!
Tim
Which "degree" of antifreeze to buy depends a lot on the severity of winter you could get. "Could" is the operative word given the previous history of Ma Nature. My feeling about this kind of thing is that since the difference in price is only a few dollars, I would buy and use -100 antifreeze. When I took a diesel engine maintenance course some years ago, the instructor used say that "antifreeze only costs a few dollars, while the (potential) replacement parts kit could cost $10,000...."
Which "degree" of antifreeze to buy depends a lot on the severity of winter you could get. "Could" is the operative word given the previous history of Ma Nature. My feeling about this kind of thing is that since the difference in price is only a few dollars, I would buy and use -100 antifreeze. When I took a diesel engine maintenance course some years ago, the instructor used say that "antifreeze only costs a few dollars, while the (potential) replacement parts kit could cost $10,000...."
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