Winterize - Hunter 33
- Thread starter jngotasail
- Start date
Think you may be confusing the compounds -
Alcohol / Ethanol is used in the cheap ($3.50/gallon) antifreeze, is very hard on rubber parts, and may not be as effective long term if the alcohol is able to evaporate.
Propylene Glycol is slightly more expensive ($5.50/gallon), non-toxic, somewhat hard on some rubber parts, and the pink AF of choice for potable water systems.
Ethylene Glycol is automotive coolant/antifreeze. It’s the most expensive of the three (maybe $10 or more per gallon). Toxic to mammals, but not fish. Generally safer for rubber components like impellers (though it depends on the type of rubber).
It's not easier on rubber parts. And besides...bacteria become increasingly sluggish below 70 F and become dormant at 40 F, so unless it's in the system in warm weather, neither aerobic nor anaerobic bacteria are likely to grow in the system. But even if it is in the system in warm weather, it'll be flushed out when the boat is recommissioned, so it's still a non-issue.
--Peggie
--Peggie
However, if someone winterizes the system and then lets it sit for a couple or three good hot summers, it's a different story. Just sayin'
On the Propylene vs Ethlyene glycol effects on synthetic parts, there seems to be some that say yes, and some that say no. Raritan is clear that nontoxic (propylene) anti-freeze should be used. http://raritaneng.com/pdf_files/ph_II/L04v0505.pdf
Correct, however, there are several factors to consider.
Water is the only compound that expands when frozen, it is this expansion that causes damage.
Glycols become very thick and slushy when frozen and do not expand. This makes it very hard if not impossible for a circulating pump to pump the ethylene glycol through the cooling system. However, I don't run the engine in the winter time.
The EG is only in the heat exchanger and the water lift muffler not in the engine block. The engine block has a 50/50 mix.
The 50/50 mix is cheaper than straight up AF, so I'll probably shift to that when I winterize again. In the mean time I'll stick with the straight EG as it is already in the cooling system.
"I see" said the blind man as he pi$$ed into the wind, the 100% is used for winterizing ONLY and 50/50 is used for regular operation within the block. My bad.
Expensive but it works.
Dlochner is correct, glycol (either type) contracts upon freezing. So in his application he is doing it in a successful way. The glycols are typically used to conduct heat, therefore are mixed with water. But in this application, it is not conducting heat, simply protecting his system from breaking due to the expansion of water occurring during freezing. Nice application.
dj
dj
One of my assumptions, which was a incorrect was straight EG would have a lower freezing point than diluted EG, thus I used the more expensive straight EG than the 50/50 mixture. Now that I know better and know there is some tolerance for dilution, I will shift to the cheaper expensive stuff in the future. A gallon of PG costs around $5 here and the 50/50 is about $10. Since I only use a gallon to winterize, the cost difference is minimal. However, if I make my own 50/50 solution, I can get the cost down to about $6 gallon and I only have to buy it every 2 years.
@Ralph Johnstone for the insights.
In the water
Change Engine Oil, & filter. Run engine for a bit to warm up before draining oil. Engine takes 4-5 L Rotella T 10W-40, Gear box takes HD 30w, 0.3L? check on that on the plate on the gear box or manual.
Change fuel filter on engine. Check belts etc. for wear.
Turn on cold taps at galley, head sinks and drain water tank.
I use a drill pump I bought at Home Depot and hoses to drain the hot water tank from the tap at the bottom of tank.
If you use AF to winterize water, disconnect hot water tank and just connect the colds together and run AF through system by dumping in water tank and run pump. Otherwise I’ve used compressor to blow air back through the water line that goes from the water pump to the tank and then to the taps. You'll need to disconnect all the lines to do this. Get a Pex disconnect tool from hardware store to help with the connections. Make sure you clear the line to the cockpit shower. I’ve disabled mine long ago so not an issue.
Remove speed paddle, under floor in V-berth, and put in plug. If you’ve never done this expect a gush of water, but have the plug handy and it goes fine. Paddle may get damaged from slings for haul-out.
Out of water
I winterize the engine by removing the hose to the impeller, fill a 5 gal. bucket with -50 AF ( make sure it has engine corrosion protection ) run a hose from the bucket and connect to impeller and then run the engine. I typically will use 5-6 gals. to make sure all the water is displaced by the AF otherwise will be diluted and less protection. I’ve used -100 AF couple time, but hard to find. I find 5-6 gals will get rid of all the water. Get a long enough hose to run to the cockpit to keep the bucket above the engine. Don’t run it dry and shut down with an inch of AF in the bottom of the bucket or still AF in the hose. I don’t change the impeller until the spring as the AF will damage the rubber. I like to change it every year.
Run AF, can be cheaper plumbing RV stuff, through all other pumps, shower sump, bilge pump, wash-down etc., down the sink drains. Check with Jabsco manual for toilet.
Remove the dummy plug from the speed paddle and the depth transducer and let dry. The reverse flow flap will trap water, freeze and may damage fitting. ( it has happened to another boat ) and replace for winter.
I don’t have the luxury of AC so don’t have any advise on that one.
If you have the Variprop feathering prop, you'll need to pump grease through to displace water from the prop. If you do let me know and I'll send you info for this too. You'll need the right grease, gun, fitting etc.
I also sent you a PM. So check that.
Change Engine Oil, & filter. Run engine for a bit to warm up before draining oil. Engine takes 4-5 L Rotella T 10W-40, Gear box takes HD 30w, 0.3L? check on that on the plate on the gear box or manual.
Change fuel filter on engine. Check belts etc. for wear.
Turn on cold taps at galley, head sinks and drain water tank.
I use a drill pump I bought at Home Depot and hoses to drain the hot water tank from the tap at the bottom of tank.
If you use AF to winterize water, disconnect hot water tank and just connect the colds together and run AF through system by dumping in water tank and run pump. Otherwise I’ve used compressor to blow air back through the water line that goes from the water pump to the tank and then to the taps. You'll need to disconnect all the lines to do this. Get a Pex disconnect tool from hardware store to help with the connections. Make sure you clear the line to the cockpit shower. I’ve disabled mine long ago so not an issue.
Remove speed paddle, under floor in V-berth, and put in plug. If you’ve never done this expect a gush of water, but have the plug handy and it goes fine. Paddle may get damaged from slings for haul-out.
Out of water
I winterize the engine by removing the hose to the impeller, fill a 5 gal. bucket with -50 AF ( make sure it has engine corrosion protection ) run a hose from the bucket and connect to impeller and then run the engine. I typically will use 5-6 gals. to make sure all the water is displaced by the AF otherwise will be diluted and less protection. I’ve used -100 AF couple time, but hard to find. I find 5-6 gals will get rid of all the water. Get a long enough hose to run to the cockpit to keep the bucket above the engine. Don’t run it dry and shut down with an inch of AF in the bottom of the bucket or still AF in the hose. I don’t change the impeller until the spring as the AF will damage the rubber. I like to change it every year.
Run AF, can be cheaper plumbing RV stuff, through all other pumps, shower sump, bilge pump, wash-down etc., down the sink drains. Check with Jabsco manual for toilet.
Remove the dummy plug from the speed paddle and the depth transducer and let dry. The reverse flow flap will trap water, freeze and may damage fitting. ( it has happened to another boat ) and replace for winter.
I don’t have the luxury of AC so don’t have any advise on that one.
If you have the Variprop feathering prop, you'll need to pump grease through to displace water from the prop. If you do let me know and I'll send you info for this too. You'll need the right grease, gun, fitting etc.
I also sent you a PM. So check that.
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