This winter my boat will be hauled out and stored on "the hard" since I need to do some minor bottom work. Next year I'll be moving our boat to another marina in Annapolis. While I was looking the new marina over, this past fall, the dock master said that many people there keep their boats in the water over the winter. The marina has bubblers that keep ice away from the boats. Obviously, the usual precautions need to be done to the raw water intake and anything else that would freeze. I was talking about "in water wintering" to another sailor friend of mine, with more experience who keeps his boat in the water, and he said that boats really shouldn't be stored "on the hard" during the winter because it stresses the hull and rigging. In fact, there was a posting on this site about loosening up the rigging for winter, on the hard storage. Most don't believe in doing it but that's another story. If you're interested go look at the old posting and replies. I'd like to hear from those, in cold weather states where the waters freeze, that keep their boats in through the winter. I know that the boat needs to be pulled for bottom painting but every year? My friend just has the boat lifted out of the water every season the have the hull pressured washed and stored on land, for a short period of time, to have new bottom paint rolled on. Seems to me that there are some advantages of keeping the boat in the water, most of the time, rather then go through the time and expenses of hauling out every year.
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Wintering
I kept my boat in the water (fresh water lake) over winter months off and on for a number of years. The marina had bubblers and allowed access to the boats throughout the winter months. The lake often freezes over in part on in whole (almost) during some colder winter spells. I even went sailing on both Christmas and New Year eve a few times when it turned warm. I have never had a problem. Having said that, there were others who had problems at the same marina. The marina workers seemed to have a hard time keeping the bubblers turned on when they were needed. Every year some boats ended up bound by ice when a switch was left off. I checked my dock every cold spell - a bit of a chore. Two times high winds forced thick ice into the marina. These ice blocks damaged docks and boats. They had a lot of mass and it took a lot of force to stop them. In both situations docks in the path were basically crumpled and boats on those docks sustained various levels of damage. Some sank. Bubblers had little to no effect on these "ice flows." There is also little control on power outages. A bad storm, possibly associated with low temperatures, could sever the power. Unless there is a back up, no power no bubbler. My marina did have a back up. I liked the convenience of leaving the boat in the water and liked the ability to do some winter sailing. I no longer store in the water, but would. The reason is tied to major increases in fees for such storage in this area. I always tried to get a dock internal to the marina for protection and would check the bubblers in colder weather. You take a risk for just about any storage types. It is a matter of the risk you are willing to accept.
I kept my boat in the water (fresh water lake) over winter months off and on for a number of years. The marina had bubblers and allowed access to the boats throughout the winter months. The lake often freezes over in part on in whole (almost) during some colder winter spells. I even went sailing on both Christmas and New Year eve a few times when it turned warm. I have never had a problem. Having said that, there were others who had problems at the same marina. The marina workers seemed to have a hard time keeping the bubblers turned on when they were needed. Every year some boats ended up bound by ice when a switch was left off. I checked my dock every cold spell - a bit of a chore. Two times high winds forced thick ice into the marina. These ice blocks damaged docks and boats. They had a lot of mass and it took a lot of force to stop them. In both situations docks in the path were basically crumpled and boats on those docks sustained various levels of damage. Some sank. Bubblers had little to no effect on these "ice flows." There is also little control on power outages. A bad storm, possibly associated with low temperatures, could sever the power. Unless there is a back up, no power no bubbler. My marina did have a back up. I liked the convenience of leaving the boat in the water and liked the ability to do some winter sailing. I no longer store in the water, but would. The reason is tied to major increases in fees for such storage in this area. I always tried to get a dock internal to the marina for protection and would check the bubblers in colder weather. You take a risk for just about any storage types. It is a matter of the risk you are willing to accept.
Insurance coverage
Thanks for your reply, Bill. Yes I've thought of all of the possible problems you mention. The new marina is very well protected and my slip will be in very deep and close to shore so protection seems to be very good. Still, I seem to remember that my Boat US insurance MAY NOT cover damage from water freezing around the hull. I need to check into that too.
Thanks for your reply, Bill. Yes I've thought of all of the possible problems you mention. The new marina is very well protected and my slip will be in very deep and close to shore so protection seems to be very good. Still, I seem to remember that my Boat US insurance MAY NOT cover damage from water freezing around the hull. I need to check into that too.
Ease of mind.
I always have ease of mind when the boat is on the hard. But boats also need to "dry out". And that happens when the boat is out of the water. The other thing about hull and rigging stress is minimal. When a boat is hauled out of the water, it "settles" into a different shape because it is no longer supported by the water. The hull will return back to its shape once it is re-launched. But boats are also designed to be stored on the hard. The keel supports the entire weight while the stanchions keep the boat upright and balanced on the keel. Basically, my feeling is that you are doing more good by hauling the boat than if you left it in the water. (Just because in-water storage is cheaper, doesn't mean that it's better.)
I always have ease of mind when the boat is on the hard. But boats also need to "dry out". And that happens when the boat is out of the water. The other thing about hull and rigging stress is minimal. When a boat is hauled out of the water, it "settles" into a different shape because it is no longer supported by the water. The hull will return back to its shape once it is re-launched. But boats are also designed to be stored on the hard. The keel supports the entire weight while the stanchions keep the boat upright and balanced on the keel. Basically, my feeling is that you are doing more good by hauling the boat than if you left it in the water. (Just because in-water storage is cheaper, doesn't mean that it's better.)
More damage likely by hauling
Bob As time goes on, we see more and more people staying in all winter here in RI. I think it is a matter of old traditions like winter haulout dieing slowly. Some of the ice flows on the Great Lakes are unique to that area and my son, who has a boat on Lake Michigan, would never stay in there. It's a matter of location and here in Naragansett Bay, the ice is easily manageable. Regarding bottom paint, multi-season paint lasts as long as you leave it on (as my marina manager says). With little movement and cold temp, the bottom stays clean with little, if any paint sloughing. I've seen and heard about more damage to the mast, hull, keel, etc. by hauling than staying in. Don Illusion
Bob As time goes on, we see more and more people staying in all winter here in RI. I think it is a matter of old traditions like winter haulout dieing slowly. Some of the ice flows on the Great Lakes are unique to that area and my son, who has a boat on Lake Michigan, would never stay in there. It's a matter of location and here in Naragansett Bay, the ice is easily manageable. Regarding bottom paint, multi-season paint lasts as long as you leave it on (as my marina manager says). With little movement and cold temp, the bottom stays clean with little, if any paint sloughing. I've seen and heard about more damage to the mast, hull, keel, etc. by hauling than staying in. Don Illusion
Insurance
I have only found one insurer who will cover freezing if boat is stored in the water, Boat US with a twenty dollar rider which may have to secured by October 31st. Others have told me no problem but once investigated, there was no coverage. Make sure you get it in writing, what an agent tells you won't hold up.
I have only found one insurer who will cover freezing if boat is stored in the water, Boat US with a twenty dollar rider which may have to secured by October 31st. Others have told me no problem but once investigated, there was no coverage. Make sure you get it in writing, what an agent tells you won't hold up.
Checking insurance coverage
Don, Interesting about the Boat US insurance coverage, which I have now. I'll have to check into the possibility of getting the rider if I decide to keep the boat in the water. I had a feeling that I would get opposing opinions on this subject but that is no surprise and (like Martha might say from her jail cell) "it's a good thing." Someone mentioned that if keeping a boat in the water is cheaper it dosen't mean that it's better. Actually (and I don't want this to sound like I'm "Mr. Money Bags") but I was looking for the best option not the cheapest. Sometimes cheaper IS better but I'm still not sure about this case. I need to hear more opinions and read more about it if there is anything at all published on the subject. The reply about the bottom paint staying put, since the boat dosen't have much water movement around it while at the slip makes sense too. I've heard the comment about a boat needing to be "dried out" once in awhile but this thought was discounted by someone with much more experiance than I. He said the boats are mento to be in the water and storing them on land, even if they're sitting on a keel, is not a "good thing". However, he did say that you must pull the boat out each year to power wash the hull and look for any possible blistering problems that might be setting up.
Don, Interesting about the Boat US insurance coverage, which I have now. I'll have to check into the possibility of getting the rider if I decide to keep the boat in the water. I had a feeling that I would get opposing opinions on this subject but that is no surprise and (like Martha might say from her jail cell) "it's a good thing." Someone mentioned that if keeping a boat in the water is cheaper it dosen't mean that it's better. Actually (and I don't want this to sound like I'm "Mr. Money Bags") but I was looking for the best option not the cheapest. Sometimes cheaper IS better but I'm still not sure about this case. I need to hear more opinions and read more about it if there is anything at all published on the subject. The reply about the bottom paint staying put, since the boat dosen't have much water movement around it while at the slip makes sense too. I've heard the comment about a boat needing to be "dried out" once in awhile but this thought was discounted by someone with much more experiance than I. He said the boats are mento to be in the water and storing them on land, even if they're sitting on a keel, is not a "good thing". However, he did say that you must pull the boat out each year to power wash the hull and look for any possible blistering problems that might be setting up.
Winter in the water
There has been a lot written about this in recent threads that may be of interest to you. Yet of all the reasons offered by some as to the "benefits" of keeping the boat in the water, the one that strikes me as strangest is the one that states that it's less stressful on the boat. A boat hauled and blocked properly by pro's is not going to stress a hull. The boat basically sits on its keel and it's lateral movements contained by properly adjusted jack stands. Think about all the new boats being made these days, how long they sit around the brokerage on the hard waiting for you to buy them. Do you think the sellers of these new boats are going to risk damaging these new boats? Then think about all the other boats in the world sitting on the hard for one reason or another. Are they being harmfully stressed? I doubt it. I do agree, however, that a boat hauled by untrained yard workers, and blocked with cinder blocks and odd pieces of lumber is at some risk of damage. I found the only thing being stressed the one year I left my boat in the water over the winter was me. Every time it snowed, I tried to get to the boat to clean it up and remove the tremendous weight of snow in and on it. Bubblers notwithstanding, snow can sink your boat in its slip. Try walking down a dock and finger pier with 2 feet of snow on it. Whenever the temps got very low for a long period of time, I wondered if ice was chipping away at my gelcoat ... or worse. I now haul every year and love it. I visit the boat frequently and have never had any damage on the hard in lots of years of ownerhship. And my stress level is minimal....
There has been a lot written about this in recent threads that may be of interest to you. Yet of all the reasons offered by some as to the "benefits" of keeping the boat in the water, the one that strikes me as strangest is the one that states that it's less stressful on the boat. A boat hauled and blocked properly by pro's is not going to stress a hull. The boat basically sits on its keel and it's lateral movements contained by properly adjusted jack stands. Think about all the new boats being made these days, how long they sit around the brokerage on the hard waiting for you to buy them. Do you think the sellers of these new boats are going to risk damaging these new boats? Then think about all the other boats in the world sitting on the hard for one reason or another. Are they being harmfully stressed? I doubt it. I do agree, however, that a boat hauled by untrained yard workers, and blocked with cinder blocks and odd pieces of lumber is at some risk of damage. I found the only thing being stressed the one year I left my boat in the water over the winter was me. Every time it snowed, I tried to get to the boat to clean it up and remove the tremendous weight of snow in and on it. Bubblers notwithstanding, snow can sink your boat in its slip. Try walking down a dock and finger pier with 2 feet of snow on it. Whenever the temps got very low for a long period of time, I wondered if ice was chipping away at my gelcoat ... or worse. I now haul every year and love it. I visit the boat frequently and have never had any damage on the hard in lots of years of ownerhship. And my stress level is minimal....
Good points!
Warren, You make some very good points, especially about the snow. I know a fellow who works at the Tidewater Marina and lives there, with his wife, on their boat. They normally head for warmer weather when the air turns cold but they decided to stay put in Havre de Grace, Md year before last. One moring he woke up with the boat listing to one side and it was very dark, even for the time of the morning when he got out of his bed. When he looked out of one of the port windows all he saw was gray. He opened the sliding hatch that lead to the cockpit and found almost four feet of snow! It took him about five hours to clear the cockpit and the decks taking care not to fall into the freezing water. I'll certianly think about all of your points when the end of the season comes again next year. I fret enough even when our boat is on the hard and everything is still stripped of the decks for the winter.
Warren, You make some very good points, especially about the snow. I know a fellow who works at the Tidewater Marina and lives there, with his wife, on their boat. They normally head for warmer weather when the air turns cold but they decided to stay put in Havre de Grace, Md year before last. One moring he woke up with the boat listing to one side and it was very dark, even for the time of the morning when he got out of his bed. When he looked out of one of the port windows all he saw was gray. He opened the sliding hatch that lead to the cockpit and found almost four feet of snow! It took him about five hours to clear the cockpit and the decks taking care not to fall into the freezing water. I'll certianly think about all of your points when the end of the season comes again next year. I fret enough even when our boat is on the hard and everything is still stripped of the decks for the winter.
Snow load, Bob?
Just curious Bob How does one build up 4 ft of snow on one side, or for that matter anywhere, if the boat is covered? Don
Just curious Bob How does one build up 4 ft of snow on one side, or for that matter anywhere, if the boat is covered? Don
A drift on board!
Don, This fellow told me that it had been snowing hard, and blowing all night resulting in creating a drift in his cockpit! The rest of the boat had at least 12" of snow on it. He used a dust pan to clear it all. They don't make snow tools for boats yet that I know about. Maybe a new product market?!
Don, This fellow told me that it had been snowing hard, and blowing all night resulting in creating a drift in his cockpit! The rest of the boat had at least 12" of snow on it. He used a dust pan to clear it all. They don't make snow tools for boats yet that I know about. Maybe a new product market?!
Snow drift
Bob I use a dustpan and brush for snow tools - there is definitely a market here in the NE for plastic snow blowers... I still can't figure out how anyone could get a snow drift in a covered cockpit. If it wasn't covered, he's asking for it. As far as the 12 inches of snow, that would generally be equivalent to 1 inch of water which wouldn't likely change the water line much, even in winter.
Bob I use a dustpan and brush for snow tools - there is definitely a market here in the NE for plastic snow blowers... I still can't figure out how anyone could get a snow drift in a covered cockpit. If it wasn't covered, he's asking for it. As far as the 12 inches of snow, that would generally be equivalent to 1 inch of water which wouldn't likely change the water line much, even in winter.
snow CAN be heavy
We winter the boat in the water since it is mainly mild enough here and we can sail sometimes in December and January. OH AND due to the fact that to haul out we have to travel downriver for a day... That being said, last winter the marina froze over for about a month and it snowed, and snowed... and snowed. Believe me, when the temps starts to get milder that snow is HEAVY. Even with lots of freeboard, you start to sit mighty low in the water! We had at least 3-4 feet of snow and shovelled it all off with a broom and plastic snowshovel. OH, and the wind created some mighty BIG drifts on some boats, regardless of whether or not they were covered... some tarps or coverings even ripped due to the weight. Also, the ice crept right up to our boats but we all kept heaters going in the boats... a toasty 45-55 degrees and had winterized them as well. Our marina always tells us to shovel that snow off in the winter... we had a boat SINK last year due to the snow...
We winter the boat in the water since it is mainly mild enough here and we can sail sometimes in December and January. OH AND due to the fact that to haul out we have to travel downriver for a day... That being said, last winter the marina froze over for about a month and it snowed, and snowed... and snowed. Believe me, when the temps starts to get milder that snow is HEAVY. Even with lots of freeboard, you start to sit mighty low in the water! We had at least 3-4 feet of snow and shovelled it all off with a broom and plastic snowshovel. OH, and the wind created some mighty BIG drifts on some boats, regardless of whether or not they were covered... some tarps or coverings even ripped due to the weight. Also, the ice crept right up to our boats but we all kept heaters going in the boats... a toasty 45-55 degrees and had winterized them as well. Our marina always tells us to shovel that snow off in the winter... we had a boat SINK last year due to the snow...
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