Should I be alarmed that it's supposed to get well below freezing (20 degrees) for the next several nights and could my '96 H-26 water ballast system become a giant (expandable) ice cube? In other words, should I have already put anti-freeze in the ballast tank, or is it unlikely it will freeze. Yout answer will determine whether I run up (sheepishly) to the lake Tuesday to carry out this task. Sincerely, frozen and (possibly) foolish
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Paul Housman
Winter temps & water ballast
Ric, I sail on an inland lake which hardly ever freezes over. From all the people I talked to about the same question their answer was the same. Why take the chance. So I hauled the boat out and drained it. It really didn't take that long. I've decided to do a test and see if a jug of water suspended down about a foot and half in the lake will freeze. Of course you know if it doesn't I'll still have that nagging feeling in the back of my mind -should I or shouldn't I? Paul S/V Linda Belle
Ric, I sail on an inland lake which hardly ever freezes over. From all the people I talked to about the same question their answer was the same. Why take the chance. So I hauled the boat out and drained it. It really didn't take that long. I've decided to do a test and see if a jug of water suspended down about a foot and half in the lake will freeze. Of course you know if it doesn't I'll still have that nagging feeling in the back of my mind -should I or shouldn't I? Paul S/V Linda Belle
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Harold Robertson
No Problem Yet
Rick, I keep a Hunter 240 on SML in Virginia between Martinsville and Roanoke and I have had no problem yet. Last year during the very cold period we had, I checked the boat and everything was ok. There was snow on the boat but the cabin was almost comfortable due to the greenhouse effect. I worry alot about this issue, but I really enjoy the winter winds so I take Crazy Dave's advice that the boat will be ok. If I lived north of Virginia I would pull the boat for the winter. Harold Robertson S/V Loon
Rick, I keep a Hunter 240 on SML in Virginia between Martinsville and Roanoke and I have had no problem yet. Last year during the very cold period we had, I checked the boat and everything was ok. There was snow on the boat but the cabin was almost comfortable due to the greenhouse effect. I worry alot about this issue, but I really enjoy the winter winds so I take Crazy Dave's advice that the boat will be ok. If I lived north of Virginia I would pull the boat for the winter. Harold Robertson S/V Loon
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Ron Mehringer
Antifreeze
Rick - I've never heard of putting antifreeze in the ballast tank. Perhaps this is a viable solution, but please make sure you make an environmentally sound choice. I know very little about the subject, but I think most antifreezes are toxic. Food for thought. Regards - Ron Mehringer
Rick - I've never heard of putting antifreeze in the ballast tank. Perhaps this is a viable solution, but please make sure you make an environmentally sound choice. I know very little about the subject, but I think most antifreezes are toxic. Food for thought. Regards - Ron Mehringer
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Alan
enviornmentally friendly antifreeze
Propylene glycol, available at West Marine and others, can be used in potable water systems also. CAREFULLY read the directions. I bet Ron like myself has a cabinet full of dead batteries awaiting proper disposal.
Propylene glycol, available at West Marine and others, can be used in potable water systems also. CAREFULLY read the directions. I bet Ron like myself has a cabinet full of dead batteries awaiting proper disposal.
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Rick Webb
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ken.shubert
Vodka
The Russian economy could use a good boost and hi-test Vodka makes very environmentally friendly anti-freeze. Just think of the 'coming out' party you can hold next spring! Ken S/V Wouff Hong
The Russian economy could use a good boost and hi-test Vodka makes very environmentally friendly anti-freeze. Just think of the 'coming out' party you can hold next spring! Ken S/V Wouff Hong
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Sam Kurtz
Rock Salt
Seems Like Rock Salt would be cheaper and if you can get the other guy to use Tequila instead of vodka you launch the boats together and WHAM! Margaritaville in the lake
Seems Like Rock Salt would be cheaper and if you can get the other guy to use Tequila instead of vodka you launch the boats together and WHAM! Margaritaville in the lake
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Paul Housman
Antifreeze??
Hey Guys, Think about this. If the ballast contains at least 1500 gallons of water and you need say a 50/50 mix of propylene glycol that's 750 gallons of antifreeze at minimum of $2.70 a gallon(on sale) plus you would still have to partly drain the ballast to allow for the additional fluid. I thought of installing a hot water heater element.Plug it into your ac power source. Don't know if the access hole is big enough or surrounding material would stand up to the heat. Paul S/V Linda Belle
Hey Guys, Think about this. If the ballast contains at least 1500 gallons of water and you need say a 50/50 mix of propylene glycol that's 750 gallons of antifreeze at minimum of $2.70 a gallon(on sale) plus you would still have to partly drain the ballast to allow for the additional fluid. I thought of installing a hot water heater element.Plug it into your ac power source. Don't know if the access hole is big enough or surrounding material would stand up to the heat. Paul S/V Linda Belle
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Mary Connaughton
water ballast in OK
I too am a bit stressed about the water ballast freezing. Went to take my boat out for the first time last weekend, drain the tanks and put in dry storage for the winter. Had a terrible time trying to figure out how to safely lower the mast. The instructions in the manual aren't too helpful. Finally gave up put it back in the water, but haven't slept well since. Am I being too cautious about the water ballast? I'd love to be able to sail during the winter.
I too am a bit stressed about the water ballast freezing. Went to take my boat out for the first time last weekend, drain the tanks and put in dry storage for the winter. Had a terrible time trying to figure out how to safely lower the mast. The instructions in the manual aren't too helpful. Finally gave up put it back in the water, but haven't slept well since. Am I being too cautious about the water ballast? I'd love to be able to sail during the winter.
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Patrick Ewing
RE: Environmental "Toxicity"
Ethylene glycol and propylene glycol have about the same low degree of toxicity to aquatic life. Both substances are generally very benign. If one used the classification system of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, both ethylene glycol and propylene glycol would fall easily into the "relatively non-toxic" category. Both ethylene glycol and propylene glycol-based fluids degrade very quickly-although speed of degradation varies with the temperature. Generally, the cooler the temperature, the more slowly the substances degrade. RE: Human "Toxicity" "The estimated lethal dose of ethylene glycol for an average size person is about 100 milliliters - or less than one-half cup. In lesser amounts, ethylene glycol is known to cause serious kidney damage and central nervous system depression." "Neither ethylene glycol nor propylene glycol appears in the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) list of "hazardous substances" or "extremely hazardous substances." However, by virtue of its oral toxicity, ethylene glycol is classified as a "toxic chemical" under SARA, Title III, Section 313" (as are many other common substances such as ethanol etc.) "Propylene glycol exhibits low toxicity when ingested, as long-term use in approved food and pharmaceutical applications has demonstrated." "... propylene glycol is generally recognized as safe (GRAS) 21 {CFR 184.1666} for internal consumption and is cleared for use as direct and indirect additive in food and pharmaceuticals..." Propylene glycol is used in many kinds of soda pop as a sweetener. Note: Do not allow small animals access to either substance. Both are sweet and both will kill small animals which will drink all of it they can. Also - just because these are both environmentally "benign", do not dispose of them foolishly. A small amount ( a few gallons ) will not cause much harm to a sewage treatment system or to the water your boat floats in. Both are alcohols and neither will likely cause damage to common plastics such as hose materials.
Ethylene glycol and propylene glycol have about the same low degree of toxicity to aquatic life. Both substances are generally very benign. If one used the classification system of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, both ethylene glycol and propylene glycol would fall easily into the "relatively non-toxic" category. Both ethylene glycol and propylene glycol-based fluids degrade very quickly-although speed of degradation varies with the temperature. Generally, the cooler the temperature, the more slowly the substances degrade. RE: Human "Toxicity" "The estimated lethal dose of ethylene glycol for an average size person is about 100 milliliters - or less than one-half cup. In lesser amounts, ethylene glycol is known to cause serious kidney damage and central nervous system depression." "Neither ethylene glycol nor propylene glycol appears in the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) list of "hazardous substances" or "extremely hazardous substances." However, by virtue of its oral toxicity, ethylene glycol is classified as a "toxic chemical" under SARA, Title III, Section 313" (as are many other common substances such as ethanol etc.) "Propylene glycol exhibits low toxicity when ingested, as long-term use in approved food and pharmaceutical applications has demonstrated." "... propylene glycol is generally recognized as safe (GRAS) 21 {CFR 184.1666} for internal consumption and is cleared for use as direct and indirect additive in food and pharmaceuticals..." Propylene glycol is used in many kinds of soda pop as a sweetener. Note: Do not allow small animals access to either substance. Both are sweet and both will kill small animals which will drink all of it they can. Also - just because these are both environmentally "benign", do not dispose of them foolishly. A small amount ( a few gallons ) will not cause much harm to a sewage treatment system or to the water your boat floats in. Both are alcohols and neither will likely cause damage to common plastics such as hose materials.
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Patrick Ewing
Floating tank heater might work
They are sold in farm supply outlets to keep animal water tanks from freezing. These would have the added advantage in that they would also keep the outside water slightly warm and keep it from freezing outside the hull. They do not use much power and simply float in the water. I do not know how much water you have in the ballast or how much room you have for one of these heaters but only the top few inches need to be protected from freezing. How deep is the ice the boat is in or will likely be in? Will the pressure of the outside ice break the keel? That has happened to boats in the very cold parts of the world. I do not think that antifreeze will protect your boat completely and you do not need a 50 / 50 mix to prevent that in the temperatures you might expect. I would ask someone who has some local experience at your marina or chandlery. I have no direct experience in this matter and so you might want to take that into account. It rarely freezes here.
They are sold in farm supply outlets to keep animal water tanks from freezing. These would have the added advantage in that they would also keep the outside water slightly warm and keep it from freezing outside the hull. They do not use much power and simply float in the water. I do not know how much water you have in the ballast or how much room you have for one of these heaters but only the top few inches need to be protected from freezing. How deep is the ice the boat is in or will likely be in? Will the pressure of the outside ice break the keel? That has happened to boats in the very cold parts of the world. I do not think that antifreeze will protect your boat completely and you do not need a 50 / 50 mix to prevent that in the temperatures you might expect. I would ask someone who has some local experience at your marina or chandlery. I have no direct experience in this matter and so you might want to take that into account. It rarely freezes here.
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ken.shubert
Conspicuously Absent
Sailors who have damaged or destroyed a WB boat by freezing seem to be conspicuously absent in these posts. That may be because: 1. Everyone else has sense enough to pull the boat out after Labor Day. 2. Anyone that freezes a boat is too embarrassed to tell us. 3. The problem is highly over-stated. If the water outside the boat is liquid, the WB is also liquid even if the outside air temp dips down to single digits. At least for a few hours. If the water outside the hull freezes, then it's going to take one heck of a heater to warm the WB because you'll be heating the rest of the world too. It wouldn't take very much anti-freeze to protect to +25deg and below that you'll suffer hull damage from the outside anyway. Rock-salt sounds like cheap insurance to me! Ken S/V Wouff Hong
Sailors who have damaged or destroyed a WB boat by freezing seem to be conspicuously absent in these posts. That may be because: 1. Everyone else has sense enough to pull the boat out after Labor Day. 2. Anyone that freezes a boat is too embarrassed to tell us. 3. The problem is highly over-stated. If the water outside the boat is liquid, the WB is also liquid even if the outside air temp dips down to single digits. At least for a few hours. If the water outside the hull freezes, then it's going to take one heck of a heater to warm the WB because you'll be heating the rest of the world too. It wouldn't take very much anti-freeze to protect to +25deg and below that you'll suffer hull damage from the outside anyway. Rock-salt sounds like cheap insurance to me! Ken S/V Wouff Hong
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Rich
blow it out
I leave my H26 in 24/7/365. At Grand the H2O temp. is not the problem. The H2O rarely freezes to any thickness. The hunter manual states that the balsa core hull will insulate the inside H2O from the lake H2O. This will not allow enough heat transfer from the lake, if the air temp. remains below 32f for long periods of time,to keep the ballast from freezing. My simple soultion is to use the exhaust from a shopvac to blow out the H2O. Open drain, then apply press. to the plug hole(be careful not to apply to much press.)It only takes a few min. to get all or most of the H2O out. The boat rocks a little more at dock, but I have had no problems. On a nice winter day (when no jetskis are out) I can be ready to sail in no time. Hope this helps.
I leave my H26 in 24/7/365. At Grand the H2O temp. is not the problem. The H2O rarely freezes to any thickness. The hunter manual states that the balsa core hull will insulate the inside H2O from the lake H2O. This will not allow enough heat transfer from the lake, if the air temp. remains below 32f for long periods of time,to keep the ballast from freezing. My simple soultion is to use the exhaust from a shopvac to blow out the H2O. Open drain, then apply press. to the plug hole(be careful not to apply to much press.)It only takes a few min. to get all or most of the H2O out. The boat rocks a little more at dock, but I have had no problems. On a nice winter day (when no jetskis are out) I can be ready to sail in no time. Hope this helps.
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Ed Knebel
250 GALLONS OF BALLAST
Given 2000 pounds of ballast, at 8 pounds a gallon, there is 250 gallons of ballast. I keep my 23.5 in the water in annapolis, md. with ice eaters around the dock, and only get ice about 1/2 thick in the vent area.
Given 2000 pounds of ballast, at 8 pounds a gallon, there is 250 gallons of ballast. I keep my 23.5 in the water in annapolis, md. with ice eaters around the dock, and only get ice about 1/2 thick in the vent area.
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Dave Condon
Need info on Kerr Lake
Rick; You do not need to worry about Kerr Lake regarding water tank freezing up. There are alot around you that stay in all winter. Not cold enough to be concerned. Call me if you need more info. Hope you put some chemical in the tank to keep it from smelling . Crazy Dave
Rick; You do not need to worry about Kerr Lake regarding water tank freezing up. There are alot around you that stay in all winter. Not cold enough to be concerned. Call me if you need more info. Hope you put some chemical in the tank to keep it from smelling . Crazy Dave
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