I am looking at a Benneteau 235 with a wing keel. Is there any advantage or disadvantage in performance, maintenance, etc. of a wing vs. a standard keel? I am a potential first time boat owner. Thank you for any insights.
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Water Depth
If your water depth is adequate; and if trailering, your ramps are adequate and you don't mind the extra height when driving down the road, the fin keel would be preferred over the wing. In high performance boats, the wing has a positive affect preventing slippage when sailing to the wind. However on cruising boats, it is more a matter of being able to make the keel shorter for shallow water sailing.
If your water depth is adequate; and if trailering, your ramps are adequate and you don't mind the extra height when driving down the road, the fin keel would be preferred over the wing. In high performance boats, the wing has a positive affect preventing slippage when sailing to the wind. However on cruising boats, it is more a matter of being able to make the keel shorter for shallow water sailing.
INCREASES EFFICIENCY WHILE HEELED
This is one of the legacies of America's Cup racing - that winged keels are more efficient than straight while heeled. The science is "interesting" if you want to look it up. Personally, winged keels offer the further advantage of having a shallower draft for a given size - important if you frequently venture into shoal waters. I doubt if a 23.5 footer would have much draft either way. Bill on STARGAZER
This is one of the legacies of America's Cup racing - that winged keels are more efficient than straight while heeled. The science is "interesting" if you want to look it up. Personally, winged keels offer the further advantage of having a shallower draft for a given size - important if you frequently venture into shoal waters. I doubt if a 23.5 footer would have much draft either way. Bill on STARGAZER
Mixed results
Wing keels have--in theory--greater lift than fin keels **of equal depth**. Unfortunately, wing keels on cruising boats are generally stubby, shoal-draft things. They are probably better than the alternative (shoal keel with a centerboard). My own experience with the shallow wing keel on my 1995 h336 is that the boat gives up more leeway than a river barge. That said, I am probably not willing to give up the very handy 4.5 foot draft.
Wing keels have--in theory--greater lift than fin keels **of equal depth**. Unfortunately, wing keels on cruising boats are generally stubby, shoal-draft things. They are probably better than the alternative (shoal keel with a centerboard). My own experience with the shallow wing keel on my 1995 h336 is that the boat gives up more leeway than a river barge. That said, I am probably not willing to give up the very handy 4.5 foot draft.
Sailing to windward aint so great either...
My Oday 272 sails through about 105-110 degrees on a close reach. I can pinch closer to the wind, but then she moves as much sideways as forward... not the most efficient keel arrangement. Notwithstanding, I like the 2'-11" draft. It gets me in and out where many other sailors DARE NOT GO ;-) It has certainly been beneficial the past two seasons on Lake Erie as the water levels are lower than normal and some of my deeper-keeled fellow sailors aren't sailing. Some can't even launch due to the water depths in the channels and marinas. That's my $.02 Tom Ehmke
My Oday 272 sails through about 105-110 degrees on a close reach. I can pinch closer to the wind, but then she moves as much sideways as forward... not the most efficient keel arrangement. Notwithstanding, I like the 2'-11" draft. It gets me in and out where many other sailors DARE NOT GO ;-) It has certainly been beneficial the past two seasons on Lake Erie as the water levels are lower than normal and some of my deeper-keeled fellow sailors aren't sailing. Some can't even launch due to the water depths in the channels and marinas. That's my $.02 Tom Ehmke
For performance, deeper is better
Jim, I understand the science of the wing keel and if the wing was added to a deep draft, then it would be better. The reality is that wings on a shallow draft keel have minimal value. I have raced a Catalina 30 with a wing against deep draft boats and the deep draft can out point the wing by a significant amount. Bruce
Jim, I understand the science of the wing keel and if the wing was added to a deep draft, then it would be better. The reality is that wings on a shallow draft keel have minimal value. I have raced a Catalina 30 with a wing against deep draft boats and the deep draft can out point the wing by a significant amount. Bruce
What they said, but
As the current owner of a 235 wing keel (happily I might add), I see the biggest advantage in launch and retrieval from a ramp to a trailer. The fin keel will perform better, and in the case of the 235, make it only slightly less tender. But unless your doing some serious racing, this difference will be minimal. I like being able to pull into shallow water areas. We routinely anchor in 4-5 ft of calm water and walk ashore (warm weather permitting). The only trick to the wing keel on the 235 is that the rudder is deeper that the keel. This means that it will hit first, and the gundeons are not the strongest, which, if you hit has speed. could leave a serious hole in your transom just above the waterline. You also might have a tricker time getting off a sand bar or mud bottom when you do touch terra firma. The flat wing won't release very quickly and you don't lessen draft by heeling. My opinion? As a first time buyer, with the potential to sell in the future, go for the wing keel. You'll get to more out of the way places (on the water and highway), and you'll find more buyers when it's time to sell.
As the current owner of a 235 wing keel (happily I might add), I see the biggest advantage in launch and retrieval from a ramp to a trailer. The fin keel will perform better, and in the case of the 235, make it only slightly less tender. But unless your doing some serious racing, this difference will be minimal. I like being able to pull into shallow water areas. We routinely anchor in 4-5 ft of calm water and walk ashore (warm weather permitting). The only trick to the wing keel on the 235 is that the rudder is deeper that the keel. This means that it will hit first, and the gundeons are not the strongest, which, if you hit has speed. could leave a serious hole in your transom just above the waterline. You also might have a tricker time getting off a sand bar or mud bottom when you do touch terra firma. The flat wing won't release very quickly and you don't lessen draft by heeling. My opinion? As a first time buyer, with the potential to sell in the future, go for the wing keel. You'll get to more out of the way places (on the water and highway), and you'll find more buyers when it's time to sell.
Attachments
The Wing Keel
Bruce, I am always looking for info as to how a sailboat sails. What is the science of the wing keel ? Would you share your info with us ?? Is a set of wings on a full keel a good move ?? If I have a shallow draft keel with winglets - what if cut the winglets off ?? Would I sail better ?? RD
Bruce, I am always looking for info as to how a sailboat sails. What is the science of the wing keel ? Would you share your info with us ?? Is a set of wings on a full keel a good move ?? If I have a shallow draft keel with winglets - what if cut the winglets off ?? Would I sail better ?? RD
I hated mine
I had an ODay 272 with one, and hated it. The boat rocked a lot for a boat of it's size and weight. Sail it first and see what you think -- it definitely has some advantages. I had a keel/centerboard O-Day 23 that sailed really well, and still had the same advantages of a shallow draft wing. Something to consider.
I had an ODay 272 with one, and hated it. The boat rocked a lot for a boat of it's size and weight. Sail it first and see what you think -- it definitely has some advantages. I had a keel/centerboard O-Day 23 that sailed really well, and still had the same advantages of a shallow draft wing. Something to consider.
Keel Theory
Jim, In theory, the wing keel is designed to perform as well as the deep fin keel - only without requiring the deep water. The idea is that the wings extend the effective length of the short fin thus increasing the aspect ratio to a more efficient shape. Although the wing performs better than the shoal keel (without centerboard) going into the wind, as with any compromise you lose something to get something. When sailing into the wind, the leeward side of the wing helps increase lift (resist side slippage like a deep fin) but the windward mostly just adds drag. When sailing downwind the keel is hardly needed at all. The more surface area the more drag and the poorer the downwind performance.(The wing has more surface area than a standard fin with the same theoretical aspect ratio and lift.) That said, I would seriously consider a 235 wing keel over a fin keel if (an only if) I must sail in waters always deeper than 4 feet but less than 6 feet at the shallowest. Alast, for my own sailing purposes I can have neither. The launch near my home is only 4 feet deep and there is no crane. Besides, I like a boat I can beach on desert islands. Whichever you choose, it should best fit the way and where you will sail. Happy sails, MArk PS: Related link is another message board.
Jim, In theory, the wing keel is designed to perform as well as the deep fin keel - only without requiring the deep water. The idea is that the wings extend the effective length of the short fin thus increasing the aspect ratio to a more efficient shape. Although the wing performs better than the shoal keel (without centerboard) going into the wind, as with any compromise you lose something to get something. When sailing into the wind, the leeward side of the wing helps increase lift (resist side slippage like a deep fin) but the windward mostly just adds drag. When sailing downwind the keel is hardly needed at all. The more surface area the more drag and the poorer the downwind performance.(The wing has more surface area than a standard fin with the same theoretical aspect ratio and lift.) That said, I would seriously consider a 235 wing keel over a fin keel if (an only if) I must sail in waters always deeper than 4 feet but less than 6 feet at the shallowest. Alast, for my own sailing purposes I can have neither. The launch near my home is only 4 feet deep and there is no crane. Besides, I like a boat I can beach on desert islands. Whichever you choose, it should best fit the way and where you will sail. Happy sails, MArk PS: Related link is another message board.
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