As anyone used Harkin's "Windward Sheeting" devise for the Traveller car. I understand it is standard on J24s. It pricey at around $425.00, I simply can't justify it at that price. I'll start looking for a used one!
Windward Sheeting on Traveller
- Thread starter bigpapaporsche
- Start date
It doesn't surprise me that you like it, it looks like a "No Brainer!" I've seen the Harkin system, but the "Costs to Benefit Ratio," doesn't work. Is there another supplier of that offers a devise like these?
Both of my Capri's have "come" with the winward sheeting car. I've sailed Capris without it. Its well worth the expense if you are going to race. In gusty winds it is an excellent tool to dump the power quickly.bigpapaporsche said:
If I had a new boat I was re-rigging that didn't have one, It would probably be lower on the list of things to fix. But if everything else is good on the boat, and you are just behind in those gusty days and want the edge, and drive the boat while trimming the main, get one.
I'll be the dissenting opinion here (shocker)
I had the midsized traveler, and car from Harken... and upgraded the car (for free, someone lent me the car) to windward sheeting, and I found it pretty miserable in light air.
When the wind picks up it's pretty good, but my biggest gripe is it really doesnt' allow you to easily relock the traveler from the rail. I found a continuous line on the traveler to be infinitely better, and honestly if I were to design one from scratch I'd go to the same layout as the J/22. With cam cleats horizontal and vertical on the combing. This allows you not only to release the leeward cleat on the car, but also to recleat it.
Lemme pose a scenario... Light air race, under 6 knots wind (ugh).... oscillating from 3-6, just enough to flatten the main at times. Now add in a motorboat wake or 2, and have the darned thing uncleat and recleat with each roller. By the end of the day, you'll be throwing that traveler car in the water, $400 or not.
yeah that's a pretty miserable race to sail in, but I usually won those races, so I took them and ran with them.
I had the midsized traveler, and car from Harken... and upgraded the car (for free, someone lent me the car) to windward sheeting, and I found it pretty miserable in light air.
When the wind picks up it's pretty good, but my biggest gripe is it really doesnt' allow you to easily relock the traveler from the rail. I found a continuous line on the traveler to be infinitely better, and honestly if I were to design one from scratch I'd go to the same layout as the J/22. With cam cleats horizontal and vertical on the combing. This allows you not only to release the leeward cleat on the car, but also to recleat it.
Lemme pose a scenario... Light air race, under 6 knots wind (ugh).... oscillating from 3-6, just enough to flatten the main at times. Now add in a motorboat wake or 2, and have the darned thing uncleat and recleat with each roller. By the end of the day, you'll be throwing that traveler car in the water, $400 or not.
yeah that's a pretty miserable race to sail in, but I usually won those races, so I took them and ran with them.
I've tried the "Continual Line" method, one of the previous posts suggested, on the Traveller and although I have very limited experience so far, its looks worthwhile. When I win the Lottery, I'll call Harkin to buy their system.
I investigated the J22 Traveller Cleating method, that Shnool mentioned in his post. Now thats looks like a solution!! It looks like it can be retrofitted easily and relatively inexpensively to a Capri 22.
I like the simplicity of it.
http://www.apsltd.com/c-2560-j22-mainsh ... ystem.aspx
Again, in light air is when the windward traveler car really breaks down, especially with motorboat chop, otherwise I think it's a worthwhile upgrade. We suffer from endless days in the summer where the air is 4-6 knots (or less), and for some reason our sail club always has a race scheduled in the middle of the least amount of wind for weeks.
Oh, and combine this with a "continuous line" for the car, and you have a way to uncleat and cleat the leeward rail or windward sitting outboard. This is especially helpful in light air when you are sitting on the leeward rail to induce heel.
This was one of my "wish list" upgrades for both my Capri 22, and my Capri 25.
http://www.apsltd.com/c-2560-j22-mainsh ... ystem.aspx
Again, in light air is when the windward traveler car really breaks down, especially with motorboat chop, otherwise I think it's a worthwhile upgrade. We suffer from endless days in the summer where the air is 4-6 knots (or less), and for some reason our sail club always has a race scheduled in the middle of the least amount of wind for weeks.
Oh, and combine this with a "continuous line" for the car, and you have a way to uncleat and cleat the leeward rail or windward sitting outboard. This is especially helpful in light air when you are sitting on the leeward rail to induce heel.
This was one of my "wish list" upgrades for both my Capri 22, and my Capri 25.
We have found on Kudzu that the vertical only cam cleat with a continuous line at just the right length is adequate. The horizontal cam cleat isn't used that often from the windward rail - as it holds down the traveler car - while the windward vertical is holding the traveler uphill where it is most needed. Making the continuous line just long enough for a good pull upward at the windward cleat is perfect - leaving enough slack for upwind trimming and not too much that you have to pull in hand over hand to loosen the leeward cam.
Right Shnool. I should have explicitly pointed out the "too short" consequences - you inadvertently pull out the leeward cam's line and you don't have enough loose line to get a good pull/yank on the windward line. Experiment with lengths (at the loose ends in the traveler bar itself) before cutting to proper/desired length.
i am new to the Capri 22 and my old boat is rigged with the traveller controls leading aft. I would like to upgrade to a vertical pull. Is there any reason not to choose the pictured option over the previous recommendation?
I am working my way down my "Things To Do list," on our 2006 Capri 22, which currently has 39 items on it. The Traveller was high on my list! I considered both the Harkin Windward Sheeting system and the J22 system. I decided on the J22 system, over the Windward Sheeting system because of the higher cost and the problematic light air performance. I ordered the (Micro Cleat) size parts to install the J22 system to actually see how it would fit. I thought that the Micro size cleats would provide a smaller profile over the same system using the original size cleats (Harkin 150). However, after receiving the parts and giving it more thought, I changed my mind and went with the original size cleats. Interesting, the cost of the Micro size cleats and bracket is $220.00 for the pair, as compared to the Windward Sheeting system of approximately $400.00. I selected the larger size cleat, even though it does have a larger profile, because I thought it would be easier to re-cleat the line, after a Tack, in the heat of the battle. I imagined that trying to locate the cleat's jaws would be easier with the larger cleats. I also like the idea of not having to drill extra holes in the coaming to mount the system. I was able to copy the J22 system, by fabricating the Angle Bracket from a piece of 2.5 aluminum angle, the width of the cleat, and drilling a 1 inch hole for the $3.00 Fair Lead. Additionally, I was able to reuse the original vertical Cam Cleats and added two older cleats (I had on hand) for the Horizontal cleats. As one of the previous post suggested, the Traveller Line should be a Continuous Line (Loop) type to fully benefit from this system! I was able to do both sides for a total cost of $30.00. Thats a lot of bang for the buck! I can't wait to give it a try.
Your handy work looks good but is beyond my talents. While I like the looks of the J22 cam bracket system, for now I have decided to use the Harken model pictured below. Initially I will only have to rearrange existing hardware and drill and fill a few holes. If more purchase is needed I can swap my car bullets for bullets with beckets and single uprights for doubles to get the functional 3:1 system pictured.
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Dbalta, thanks for your input. I think the Harkin system you are considering will obviously work fine, but you will fine it much harder to use as compared to the J22 system. IMHO, the Traveler is one of the most unused Sail Trim and balance control devises on a sailboat! I believe this is due to primary two reasons, one few of us know how/when to accurately use it and secondly most Traveler systems are to hard to use, especially after a Tack. The Harkin Windward Sheeting system make the operation of the Traveler seem almost automatic. This of course is a great feature, once you get past the $400.00 cost and the few situations where it can be problematic. I understand that these problematic situations, can be reduced somewhat, with the addition of Cam Cleats at the end of the bar. IMO, the J22 system hits the nail on the head at a reasonable cost. The real key is the Continuous Line (Loop) that the J22 system can use.
Hi Bigpapaporsche,
After further deliberation I decided to go with the J22 set up and sprung for the kits (obm0006kit) from Annapolis Performance Sailing. Installation was easy if I overlook the uncomfortably tight spaces under the cockpit. I only had to drill one hole and fill two others.
Before I cut my line I would like to know how much slack you use in the continuous line on you boat. I am thinking somewhere between 16 and 24 inches--that seems to work for me.
Thanx for your input,
Don
After further deliberation I decided to go with the J22 set up and sprung for the kits (obm0006kit) from Annapolis Performance Sailing. Installation was easy if I overlook the uncomfortably tight spaces under the cockpit. I only had to drill one hole and fill two others.
Before I cut my line I would like to know how much slack you use in the continuous line on you boat. I am thinking somewhere between 16 and 24 inches--that seems to work for me.
Thanx for your input,
Don