Windows

Tsatzsue · May 12, 2014

I have the same set up on my Mac V25. Back out the interior screws and the inner frame comes out Then the outer frame, which holds the glass or plexi can be removed. I took all mine out Scraped the dry crusty sealer off. I took a copper fitting brush, cut off the handle and put it in my battery drill. Wire wheeled it that way and rebidded with butyl tape (Maine sail for info). Put all the windows back, placed the inner frames on and reset the screws. Note ...do not overtighten the screws. The tape will ooze out for a couple days. Tighten the screws again after a couple days and once more after that. Plastic scraper will remove the excess.

Brian S · May 12, 2014

Mine are plexi flush on the outside of the cabin side. There were screws through the plexi into the fiberglass. These fasteners are primarily to hold the plexi in place while the Dow Corning 795 sealant cures.

What happened on mine, was after 25 years, spider cracking formed around the holes drilled in the fiberglass, and the cracks migrated out under the adhesive, until they were exposed to rain. Water then dripped in the crack behind the sealant. When I took the windows off, the sealant was still strongly bonded to the cabin side. Always, always countersink holes in fiberglass to help relieve these stresses!

I replaced the windows with replacement windows sourced from an OEM supplier. Rather than drill new holes in the plexi, I chose to adhere them to side with 3M VHB acrylic tape, then seal the gap with more 795, as per this article in Sail Magazine: http://www.sailmagazine.com/boatworks/replacing-fixed-portlights I spent an hour in the cabin in the rain this past Saturday, and I did not observe any leaks.

Of course, I had to repair the screw holed and spider cracks before installing the windows. I figure this repair will last longer than I own the boat…

Best part (besides fixing the leaks) was that the window looks badass without any visible fasteners.

CharlzO · May 12, 2014

Tsatzsue said:
I have the same set up on my Mac V25. Back out the interior screws and the inner frame comes out Then the outer frame, which holds the glass or plexi can be removed. I took all mine out Scraped the dry crusty sealer off. I took a copper fitting brush, cut off the handle and put it in my battery drill. Wire wheeled it that way and rebidded with butyl tape (Maine sail for info). Put all the windows back, placed the inner frames on and reset the screws. Note ...do not overtighten the screws. The tape will ooze out for a couple days. Tighten the screws again after a couple days and once more after that. Plastic scraper will remove the excess.

This is exactly how mine came out, and also the same process I used to re-bed them back into place. Works perfectly, no leaks at all in the ones I've done so far. Still a few more to do as insurance (they aren't leaking yet, but they're also 40+ years old).

topcat0399 · May 12, 2014

Our old boat once had complicated 2 part aluminum frames also. After taking them out several times to reseal and still ending up with leaks - we deleted the frames and glued on bronze lexan directly over the cabin window cutouts with Dow 795 and no fasteners.

It was sort of a pain to get done but I don't expect to be having anymore leaks - not from the windows anyway.

Shan · May 13, 2014

We have a similar problem, in that ours leak and as they are 30 years old, there is quite a bit of crazing. We are planning to get them replaced but was wondering what tint we should go for. What does everyone else have?

Brian S · May 13, 2014

I have #2412 Dark Bronze.

Don't forget to spray paint the overlapping areas, otherwise the lighter colored gelcoat from the cabin will show through. High temp silicone based paint is recommended, but I think the paint I used scratched off too easily. I hope this doesn't cause problems down the road… Just keep the brown paper on, and mark the inside opening on the paper, cut out with Xacto knife, and peel the area to be painted off. The rest of the paper will act like nice masking...

Shan said:
We have a similar problem, in that ours leak and as they are 30 years old, there is quite a bit of crazing. We are planning to get them replaced but was wondering what tint we should go for. What does everyone else have?

Shan · May 13, 2014

Thanks, fortunately, everything is being repainted as well. We hope to never have to do it again in our lifetime!

The Garbone · May 13, 2014

Go buy a bunch of nice butyl tape. Pull out the windows on at a time, clean frames and cabin sides thoroughly, rebed with butyl. Also do your chainplates the same way ( actually easier than the windows).

On our 78' the old bedding was similar to plumbers putty. Our butyl is almost like a tacky bubble gum. The longer it sits the better it seals.

Also pull the bomars and rebed those.

Our boat had a wet bilge when we bought her, leaked from every window and a few screw holes as the water traveled thru the liner. It has been bone dry for a few months now, so nice.

Hatches and sinks. | Every good thing....
https://svknotaclew.wordpress.com/2014/01/04/hatches-and-sinks/

caguy · May 13, 2014

I replaced the ones on the Luger with a dark limo smoke colored Plexiglas. The darker the better. You can't see in but from the inside you get a nice tone looking out. I glued them on with black Loctite Polyurethane. I have used this before on my roof, it has been totally exposed to the sun for the last 8 years and is as flexible as it was back then. It skins out nicely and has a higher adhesion property. The consistency when applied is thick enough that it doesn't run or sag. You have about a 20 minute working window which for me was perfect. I did not drill holes in the Plexiglas but instead supported it with a board. Fortunately there were a couple of screw hole in the cabin wall that worked perfectly. I think they were there to support the lower curtain rod. If they had not been there I think I would have used suction cups (the kind used for moving glass) to support the windows. I used a ratchet cargo strap that ran from the companion way to the small port opening just forward of the large ports. I used a styro foam block to apply pressure to the window while they cured. I used some bent aluminum angles made from 1/16 sheet stock to off set the windows for a 5/16 gap. They were attached by some flathead screws from the outside in. After I remove the angles I will use the studs to attach my inner trim ring with acorn nuts.
Here is a diagram,

Shan · May 14, 2014

That's really useful, thank you. I don't suppose I could be cheeky and also ask to see a photo please?

fourwhitesocks · Nov 23, 2014

The Garbone Gary

I see that you wrote that you used buytl to rebed your windows, can you explain that process a little more or did you do a blog post with pictures on your web site about it?

I'm not understanding what holds the window in place without redrilling? What is holding the window in place at all? I've been using buytl for rebedding other hardware and love using it and would be interesting in using it for my window on my 28' Oday (large fixed port side window..) but I must be missing something...

fourwhitesocks · Nov 23, 2014

Brian S

How did you hold your windows in place without drilling when you did your windows? I love the link to the great article, thank you!

I'm just not understanding what holds the window while the sealant cures? Doesn't there have to be something that puts 'pressure' on the window so that it sticks / adheres correctly??

My window is the large fixed window on the port side of my 28' Oday

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani · Nov 23, 2014

Funny- I rebuilt a 21 foot trailer boat back in 94 and replaced the crappy windows with a pair out of a wrecked Catalina 30. They've been leak free ever since. Properly installed, they'll be great- far better than trying to now glue something to the cabin side.

Chief RA · Nov 23, 2014

My windows were bonded to the outside by Catalina when new and to this point do not leak at all! My companionway hatch slider didn't work as well. Since the Plexiglass broke at the holes for the hasp I opted to replace both slider and vertical white plastic insert with Lexan. While Lexan scratches easier than Plexi it is virtually unbreakable. I bought the Lexan and I had these cut to size at my local Glass Shop. Chief

Brian S · Nov 23, 2014

Hey, 4whitesocks, what I did was position the window on the cabin, and hot glue 3 wood blocks, 1 in back for fore/aft positioning, and 2 along the top for up/down and level positioning. They stood proud about 2-3 inches. When I had the VHB tape applied to the window, I also ran a bead of 795 sealant along the bottom of the window, because I knew I would have difficulty getting the gun underneath between window and deck. Then, I lined up the window snug against all the blocks, and slid it down the blocks to the surface of the cabin, all lined up, and allowed the VHB to contact and stick the window. Then I masking-taped around well, and applied the 795 into the gap between window and cabin, all the way around, hoping I was squirting enough sealant to fill in the whole gap to the VHB. From what I saw when I took the windows off, the existing 795 used at the factory was still perfectly adhered, so I figure my application isn't going anywhere.

My problem was the screws through the window, into the cabin side fiberglass, were not properly countersunk into the gelcoat. Therefore, they eventually spider cracked, and the cracks went under the 795 through the gelcoat, and allowed water to seep in underneath the sealant. Any time you put fastener holes in fiberglass, countersink to relieve stress! And no boat manufactures seem to take this extra step that lasts all of 5 seconds per hole.

fourwhitesocks · Nov 23, 2014

Oh geeze I am confused. What is holding the hot glued blocks up? I wasn't going to use that large black gasket...(now from your post it might be the 795 from the factory which I saved and looks like a giant gasket, it's now completely removed from the window and the boat)

That gap between the window and cabin is enormous...you filled that whole gap with sealant?

Also did you fill in all the holes on the outside of the boat where the window was originally screwed on with some sort of fiberglass filler? I was going to do that too...

Thankfully I do understand the countersinking importance ;-) I would like to try it without drilling, thanks for responding

Scott T-Bird · Nov 23, 2014

I think the original poster is asking for an opinion about which way to mount the windows is best. What are the reasons or advantages between a framed window with either plastic, aluminum or SS frame vs a frameless window of lexan or plexiglass (polycarbonate or acrylic) that is mounted to the surface of the fiberglass/gelcoat with adhesive?

My perception is that a framed window looks more traditional and robust than a frameless window. I also don't particularly like the looks of a lexan standing proud of the coachroof but I do like a nice, flush surface as it looks modern and sleek. If I were to do a frameless window, I would want to recess the lexan. So how hard is that project to recess the mounting area?

I'm curious about this as well because my windows are mounted in plastic frames which are badly damaged by cracks and chips. I tried, once, to remove a frame but it appeared that the adhesive might cause the gelcoat to fail before the frame releases. In fact, I have space to install larger windows, so I plan to make a clean cut entirely around the old frames.

What about opening port lights? You're not going to have that option if you do frameless (I assume). I have 2 fixed ports and an opening port on both sides. I want to add a small opening port in both sides in the forward berth. Wouldn't it look odd to have 2 frameless windows and 1 or 2 framed ports? I lean toward making all frames look consistent.

The expense of new framed windows/ports is what has kept me from proceeding. I realize that frameless lexan would be far more economical, but I am considering my satisfaction with the overall aesthetic impact to the boat. Are there other considerations?

Chief RA · Nov 23, 2014

If using Plexi stay away from drilling it if you can. Chief

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