window rebed

[Monty VM]

One of the large window that run along side the Salon on our boat has started to pull away from the fiberglass. I put some caulk over it to temporarily keep water out. Before I cut/pull if the rest of the way out I want to know if this is something a do it yourselfer can rebed or do I need to hire a professional. This is not a porthole with a frame. the Lexan appears to just be bedded onto the fiberglass. there are also a few small indentations covered with a black rubbery substance. They look like they could be screw holes but they are so small I doubt it. I am in Panama and the yard here is a nightmare so I cannot use them. Any experience with these windows would really help.

 

[Jean Guy]

Monty if you done something similar before it is not a big deal. Very hard to come out ,you have to use a very sharp blade to release the suction on the rest of the window, clean everything properly and start from scratch. When you put it back together you have to pay attention as it has a small curve. You have to secure both end to fairly tight to the cabin. Those small hole would be to screw small screw to hold it in place.
Good Luck

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Those small hole would be to screw small screw to hold it in place.
Good Luck

Once the silicone caulk (Dow Corning 795) has set, you'll want to remove the holding screws. The FG surround and the acrylic hatch have a large difference in thermal expansion.

Check the archives here for a large collection of info on instaling frameless hatches.

 

[artboas]

Dude,,, this job is really easy. Follow these steps.

One of the large window that run along side the Salon on our boat has started to pull away from the fiberglass. I put some caulk over it to temporarily keep water out. Before I cut/pull if the rest of the way out I want to know if this is something a do it yourselfer can rebed or do I need to hire a professional. This is not a porthole with a frame. the Lexan appears to just be bedded onto the fiberglass. there are also a few small indentations covered with a black rubbery substance. They look like they could be screw holes but they are so small I doubt it. I am in Panama and the yard here is a nightmare so I cannot use them. Any experience with these windows would really help.

Ok,,
I'm going to make you an expert.
First thing..grab a six pack
Now, you need to get the window out which is very easy
You see all those little black rubber nubbies??
There are screws under them.
With a screwdriver carefully pick out enough to access the Phillips screw heads.
Now just remove the screws.
Now, you need to make a tool.
Remember in the gangster movies how some really bad guy sneaks up behind someone else, and pulls this piano wire across his neck and murders him in about 20 seconds of grunting and all sorts of neat violence?
You need one of these.
So, go locate a mini-roll of very thin stainless piano wire.
It is often sold as seizing wire for locking bolts. Any marine place has it.
Or, go to an assassin supply shop. They stock it as well, and probably cheaper than the marine guys.
Now, you need 2 wooden dowels; about 1" diameter. 8" long


You could drill a hole hole at 4" crossways. Makes it easier.
Now, go to a corner of the window
At the very corner, work the wire straight through the sealant so that it pokes straight through, and comes out the other side.
I find it easier to start on the inside of the boat, and poke it outside.
Now, use one of your "cold ones" to attract a buddIe.
Wrap the stainless wire around the handles, (through the hole first).
WEAR GLOVES!!
If the wire slips, breaks, etc. it can cut you real bad.

Now, just use it as a saw to work around the whole frame.
The window will pop out in, maybe, 10 minutes. It is redicuiusky easy

Now, you need a tube of Corning 795 sealant. CHECK THE DATE CODE.
With a small metal scraper remove as much as you can from the Fiberglas.
Now, get a brass brush, like a bbb soft cleaning brush, and clean up the rest real well.
On the window, use a razor blade, And a bit of brass wool (very lightly) you wAnt a very small but of roughness to get the 795 to adhere.
Remove all the interior cushions below where you're working, and lay in drop cloths to cover everything. Now mask around the outside of the window with 3/4" blue tape
Now, have a cold one.

Ok, next put on a very liberal 795 bead all the way around on the outside.

Carefully fit the window, and Start putting in screws
DONT jack them all the way down.
You want a min of 1/8 in the gap between window & hull
Do the screws slowly, and work your way around.
With a small cup of water with a touch of dish soap in it, use your finger to remove excess caulking, with the water making a nice shiny surface finish.
Now, pull the masking tape.
Leave the screws in for at least a week.
Then fill the holes with 795

Good luck !!

 

[RIVERCRUISER]

Wow!!!
Great tutorial.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

DONT jack them all the way down.
You want a min of 1/8 in the gap between window & hull
Do the screws slowly, and work your way around.
!!

I have a sneaking suspicion you may have done this before.

Have you ever tried using adhesive backed, closed cell, foam rubber on the inside edge of the FG to ensure you have the necessary 1/8" gap all around ? This also prevents the 795 from oozing inwards between the acrylic and the FG and making a mess on the interior.

I replaced the lenses on three Lewmar opening hatches a few years back. A much smaller, easier, workshop winter job. I found the foam tape to be a big help in maintaining the 1/8" gap.

Another find, halfway throught the job, was to use 1/8" wide, rubber based, automotive masking tape to perfectly mask around the tight curves of the acrylic. The 3/4" blue masking tape can then be roughly applied next to the 1/8" tape for a perfect masking job.

 

[Monty VM]

thank you for all the great advice and the excellent outline. I have been told that silicone doesn't adhere well to fiberglass. is that not accurate? why is 795 recommended over 5200?

 

[redunculous]

Artboas

I have the same issue as the poster and have to say I've got a nice six pack ready to wave at my dock neighbor who always says he's ready to help...

Absolutely great tutorial - thank you!

 

[davjonLegend]

If you don't find the piano wire, I have used whipping line. Then used it with a sewing needle to push, and then pull, the line through the old caulk. (Use pliers to hold the needle.) The whipping line was strong enough to cut through the caulk.

 

[artboas]

Whipping twine

If you don't find the piano wire, I have used whipping line. Then used it with a sewing needle to push, and then pull, the line through the old caulk. (Use pliers to hold the needle.) The whipping line was strong enough to cut through the caulk.

The whipping twine has an advantage and a disadvantage over the stainless wire.
If you use a coarse grade of whipping twine, the lay of the twist actually works like a small saw blade.
But, it will snap a few times during the course of the caulking removal. No worries though, cause you just feed a new section through.
Silicone is the wrong stuff to use in this application as it will lift from the Fiberglas if there is any flexing.
The 795 is definitely the right stuff.
Re: the trick of using self-adhesive close-cell foam;
No, haven't tried that. But, it is an interesting concept to keep a uniform thickness of 795.
This is why these forums work...everyone pitches in.
btw..
If anyone ever needs to replace the deck windshield, I posted a tutiorual on how to remove windshields intact, in under an hour with no cracking or damage.
Hunter's method took about a day, and was definitely going to crack the plexi.

Best of luck

 

[njlarry]

thank you for all the great advice and the excellent outline. I have been told that silicone doesn't adhere well to fiberglass. is that not accurate? why is 795 recommended over 5200?

795 is way better than 5200 for this use. 5200 is only for permanent bonding
Of hull to deck or keel to stub. For deck hardware and through hulls I use life caulk or
Silkaflex 291 (sp?)..
795 bonds to acrylic and is not at all like the silicone junk you find at the hardware store.
Using blue masking tape will give you professional looking results. If your port light is
Dark gray get the 795 in black. It will hold it without any screws once cured.

ps, you will have less leaks if you stop using your boat as a surfboard:naughty:

 

[Monty VM]

thank you all

I am going to track down some 795, print this thread and buy a 6 pack.

It is hard to resist surfing at times:dance:

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

If anyone ever needs to replace the deck windshield, I posted a tutiorual on how to remove windshields intact, in under an hour with no cracking or damage.
Hunter's method took about a day, and was definitely going to crack the plexi.

And where did you post the tutorial ? ? ? ?

I have GOT to get to work on replacing my forward fixed hatch. For the last few years I have been collecting a small library of material for the replacement and yours is a good addition.

Five or six years ago I dug out replaced all of the 795 bead on the extrerior as I had a small leak. I knew it was only a temporary fix and now the small leak is back. I will only use the original acrylic as a template for a new window as the old one is showing a few signs of crazing.

 

[Monty VM]

see above, post by artboas entitled Dude, i am going to make you an expert. it is a great outline.

 

[artboas]

Slightly confused

And where did you post the tutorial ? ? ? ?

I have GOT to get to work on replacing my forward fixed hatch. For the last few years I have been collecting a small library of material for the replacement and yours is a good addition.

Five or six years ago I dug out replaced all of the 795 bead on the extrerior as I had a small leak. I knew it was only a temporary fix and now the small leak is back. I will only use the original acrylic as a template for a new window as the old one is showing a few signs of crazing.

Are you looking to replace your windshield?

 

[artboas]

Removing Hunter windshields

Are you looking to replace your windshield?

sorry, but the photos didn't transfer in this copy & paste
If you give me your email, I'll send photos as well
Read below. Guarantee you'll understand
This is (one of the ) neatest tricks I've come up with!!


How to remove Hunter Windshields


I had to remove one of my windshields to fix a leak.
Hunter told me to scrape away sealant, and tap wedges in to try & pry the window out. Frankly, I didn’t like this approach, and thought it would possibly crack the plexi. I found a very easy way to remove windshields, without damage.
Once I figured out the trick, it was out in about 30 minutes. This technique can be adapted to any hunter windshield. It will also work on the really big ones, such as the wrap around types. As you know, these are almost impossible to remove in 1 piece.hu
First, take a sharp knife on the deck, and cut all of the external sealant. It doesn’t have to be fully removed: just cut a full depth line around the perimeter.
Next, the “trick”

Attach 2 glazier’s double suction cups to the windshield close to one end.
Then attach the suction cups to the spin halyard.
Crank up some tension, until it is fairly taught. Think of a violin string.
Be sure to attract a safety line to the shackle so you don't masthead it.

Now go below. Take some putty knives, and drive them into the window to deck joint. As you get 1 fully in, then leapfrog the next putty knife over it.


If you are working directly below the suction cups, you will start to feel a slight lifting of the window where you are breaking the seal.
Once this happens, slack the halyard, and move the suction cups along the window perimeter. Crank up the tension again
Keep tapping in the paint scrapers, and the window will continue to lift along where you are working.
Once you have one edge, work your way fully around. There is no need to lift the window more than ¼” as you work it. You will notice that as more of the sealant is removed, the faster the window will break free. As you are always working under the suction cups, it will be very obvious when you are successful with that section, as it will lift.
In about 30 -45 minutes, the window will literally pop out. Its almost funny when this happens, because its just so easy to do something that you would have thought next to impossible.




Good idea to then tape plastic sheeting inside, so that you don’t get boat full of sealant when you clean off old sealant. Leave the plastic on when you put on fresh sealant so it doesn’t drip on the floor.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Are you looking to replace your windshield?

Yes, it's the windshield, non-opening frameless hatch, window or whatever else you want to call it.

Saw your writeup on using glazier's suction cups for pulling off the acrylic ............. now THAT'S the way to pop them off. Just needs a little modification to attack the frameless portlights on the side of the cabin.

 

[artboas]

Oh, that's easy

Yes, it's the windshield, non-opening frameless hatch, window or whatever else you want to call it.

Saw your writeup on using glazier's suction cups for pulling off the acrylic ............. now THAT'S the way to pop them off. Just needs a little modification to attack the frameless portlights on the side of the cabin.

You just use snatch blocks, and secure to stanchion bases.
Use a bit of imagination to run rope leads, but it works easily.
In this case you would run to cockpit or cabin top winches.
The whole magic to this process is that you are using the line as a constant force spring. As the plexi lifts, you give literally 2 clicks on the winch.
Because the line in going to the masthead, you have a lot of spring energy over its length. In that respect it is very compliant, and will have enough give not to crack the plastic like the wooden wedge technique that Hunter reccomended.
You will be amazed how easy this is.
I spent about 1/2 day figuring it out in my head, but literally laughed out loud when the window popped out with so little effort.

 

[braddexter]

Dude,,, this job is really easy. Follow these steps.



Ok,,
I'm going to make you an expert.
First thing..grab a six pack
Now, you need to get the window out which is very easy
You see all those little black rubber nubbies??
There are screws under them.
With a screwdriver carefully pick out enough to access the Phillips screw heads.
Now just remove the screws.
Now, you need to make a tool.
Remember in the gangster movies how some really bad guy sneaks up behind someone else, and pulls this piano wire across his neck and murders him in about 20 seconds of grunting and all sorts of neat violence?
You need one of these.
So, go locate a mini-roll of very thin stainless piano wire.
It is often sold as seizing wire for locking bolts. Any marine place has it.
Or, go to an assassin supply shop. They stock it as well, and probably cheaper than the marine guys.
Now, you need 2 wooden dowels; about 1" diameter. 8" long


You could drill a hole hole at 4" crossways. Makes it easier.
Now, go to a corner of the window
At the very corner, work the wire straight through the sealant so that it pokes straight through, and comes out the other side.
I find it easier to start on the inside of the boat, and poke it outside.
Now, use one of your "cold ones" to attract a buddIe.
Wrap the stainless wire around the handles, (through the hole first).
WEAR GLOVES!!
If the wire slips, breaks, etc. it can cut you real bad.

Now, just use it as a saw to work around the whole frame.
The window will pop out in, maybe, 10 minutes. It is redicuiusky easy

Now, you need a tube of Corning 795 sealant. CHECK THE DATE CODE.
With a small metal scraper remove as much as you can from the Fiberglas.
Now, get a brass brush, like a bbb soft cleaning brush, and clean up the rest real well.
On the window, use a razor blade, And a bit of brass wool (very lightly) you wAnt a very small but of roughness to get the 795 to adhere.
Remove all the interior cushions below where you're working, and lay in drop cloths to cover everything. Now mask around the outside of the window with 3/4" blue tape
Now, have a cold one.

Ok, next put on a very liberal 795 bead all the way around on the outside.

Carefully fit the window, and Start putting in screws
DONT jack them all the way down.
You want a min of 1/8 in the gap between window & hull
Do the screws slowly, and work your way around.
With a small cup of water with a touch of dish soap in it, use your finger to remove excess caulking, with the water making a nice shiny surface finish.
Now, pull the masking tape.
Leave the screws in for at least a week
Thanks so much.... a great thread. Boat in South of France (I'm in sunny England).... this is going to help so much. And Artboas... I did find your other thread (use Sikaflex etc...). Brilliant stuff. Anyone planning on being in France for the Spring?
.
Then fill the holes with 795

Good luck !!

Boiler and Artboas....
Thanks so much.... a great thread. Boat in South of France (I'm in sunny England).... this is going to help so much. And Artboas... I did find your other thread (use Sikaflex etc...). Brilliant stuff. Anyone planning on being in France for the Spring?

 

[braddexter]

Thanks so much.... a great thread. Boat in South of France (I'm in sunny England).... this is going to help so much. And Artboas... I did find your other thread (use Sikaflex etc...). Brilliant stuff. Anyone planning on being in France for the Spring?