I will be installing a windlass this spring and I was wondering if anybody ever used welding cable for the power suply to the windlass motor. The end could be soldered before the connectors are crimped and they could be sealed with shrink wrap. This could mean a considerable saving. I'm sure it would be fine in the great lakes but what about in the salt water environment? Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks Dan
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Lower amp draw
We typically use welding cables for runs of battery cables on USCG rescue boats . The flexibility, lowered amp draw, ease of working with are all a plus. The only drawback is that the wires are not tinned. This can be a problem in salt water if the ends of the cables aren't sealed well and exposed to the water. The precautions you mentioned of soldering and heat shrinking are ways to prevent problems. The lowered amp draw comes from the fact that there are many very fine wires in welding cables. This also makes the cables so nice and flexible. The cables can be difficult to get a good crimp connection on also because of the fine wires and the amount they flex. Of course you would need to inspect the connections periodically just like any high draw appliance.
We typically use welding cables for runs of battery cables on USCG rescue boats . The flexibility, lowered amp draw, ease of working with are all a plus. The only drawback is that the wires are not tinned. This can be a problem in salt water if the ends of the cables aren't sealed well and exposed to the water. The precautions you mentioned of soldering and heat shrinking are ways to prevent problems. The lowered amp draw comes from the fact that there are many very fine wires in welding cables. This also makes the cables so nice and flexible. The cables can be difficult to get a good crimp connection on also because of the fine wires and the amount they flex. Of course you would need to inspect the connections periodically just like any high draw appliance.
Use the marine gage wire
Dan: I would not recommend any wire other than marine grade wire. It contains metals that are good conductors and minimize corrosion. It also does not degrade the current draw. Please also refer to the windlass installation manual for the proper size of the wire. I have installed two windlasses and depending on where you have the battery to the location of the windlass motor the gage may not be the same. Also use a good crimping tool for the ends. Soldering is good but the crimp is the main method of ensuring you have a good connection that does not pull out of the end fittings under strain. The other plus with the marine grade wire is that it is more flexible than other non-marine grade wire. Having the flexibility will help you route the wire thru the boat easier. The price is really high for the marine grade wire but it is the right thing to do in my opinion. Ray
Dan: I would not recommend any wire other than marine grade wire. It contains metals that are good conductors and minimize corrosion. It also does not degrade the current draw. Please also refer to the windlass installation manual for the proper size of the wire. I have installed two windlasses and depending on where you have the battery to the location of the windlass motor the gage may not be the same. Also use a good crimping tool for the ends. Soldering is good but the crimp is the main method of ensuring you have a good connection that does not pull out of the end fittings under strain. The other plus with the marine grade wire is that it is more flexible than other non-marine grade wire. Having the flexibility will help you route the wire thru the boat easier. The price is really high for the marine grade wire but it is the right thing to do in my opinion. Ray
Tinned Cable
My previous sailboat, a Hunter 34 didn't have one piece of proper marine wire on it when it left the factory in 1983, The welding cable will work fine
My previous sailboat, a Hunter 34 didn't have one piece of proper marine wire on it when it left the factory in 1983, The welding cable will work fine
There's a lot of options....
you could actually mount a battery in the bow (if there's a place for it) and save a LOT of money and difficulty running wires from the stern to the bow. Since a windlass tends to be used once or twice and then sits for hours, days or even weeks, you could mount a solar panel at the bow to recharge the battery, or run much smaller wires from your DC charging system to the battery at the bow. Wires to carry 60-100 amps with acceptable voltage loss are going to be MUCH larger than ones to carry 10 or 20 amps up to that battery to charge it. Cheaper, too. I've pulled enough large DC wire - up to 500mcm - to appreciate the flexibility and ease of handling of welding wire. It's more expensive, however, and you have to be very careful with it, because those tiny little wires (they're like 30awg or smaller) can start breaking, and when they do, your current capacity goes down. Keep looking, keep thinking, there's lots of ways to skin this cat.
Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
you could actually mount a battery in the bow (if there's a place for it) and save a LOT of money and difficulty running wires from the stern to the bow. Since a windlass tends to be used once or twice and then sits for hours, days or even weeks, you could mount a solar panel at the bow to recharge the battery, or run much smaller wires from your DC charging system to the battery at the bow. Wires to carry 60-100 amps with acceptable voltage loss are going to be MUCH larger than ones to carry 10 or 20 amps up to that battery to charge it. Cheaper, too. I've pulled enough large DC wire - up to 500mcm - to appreciate the flexibility and ease of handling of welding wire. It's more expensive, however, and you have to be very careful with it, because those tiny little wires (they're like 30awg or smaller) can start breaking, and when they do, your current capacity goes down. Keep looking, keep thinking, there's lots of ways to skin this cat.
Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
Also, you may get dinged on resale survey
If a surveyor catches it, you may wind up replacing/reducing price in a subsequent sale. Did that as a buyer, so you may as well do it right the first time.
If a surveyor catches it, you may wind up replacing/reducing price in a subsequent sale. Did that as a buyer, so you may as well do it right the first time.
Still thinking about it
Thanks for all the replies. I see I'm not the only one that as been thinking about this. I will be shopping for tin wire again but if I can't find a reasonnable price I'm leanning towards the 02 welding cable at $3.00 a foot CA as opposed to $15.00 US for the tin wire. Any ideal were I can find a good price for tin wire? Still shopping. Dan
Thanks for all the replies. I see I'm not the only one that as been thinking about this. I will be shopping for tin wire again but if I can't find a reasonnable price I'm leanning towards the 02 welding cable at $3.00 a foot CA as opposed to $15.00 US for the tin wire. Any ideal were I can find a good price for tin wire? Still shopping. Dan
Solo sailing or with a crew
If you are solo sailing (and anchoring) then an electric windlass makes some sense. If you normally crew the boat the for something as small as a 37.5 (I own one too) you really don't need a windlass. Even in a high wind you can motor up to the anchor, pulling in the rode as you go, then cleat off the rode and let the boat's momentum break free the anchor. In calm conditions the 37.5 "pulls" pretty easy. Where are you going to put the anchor locker? My legend has a nice big locker in the bow but the "drop" from where you can install a windlass to the bottom of the locker is not enough to keep the rode/chain from tangling. So you would have to go up to the bow anyway to "break down the pile". Since you have to be up there anyway why even use a windlass?
If you are solo sailing (and anchoring) then an electric windlass makes some sense. If you normally crew the boat the for something as small as a 37.5 (I own one too) you really don't need a windlass. Even in a high wind you can motor up to the anchor, pulling in the rode as you go, then cleat off the rode and let the boat's momentum break free the anchor. In calm conditions the 37.5 "pulls" pretty easy. Where are you going to put the anchor locker? My legend has a nice big locker in the bow but the "drop" from where you can install a windlass to the bottom of the locker is not enough to keep the rode/chain from tangling. So you would have to go up to the bow anyway to "break down the pile". Since you have to be up there anyway why even use a windlass?
Bill, that's easy to answer.
Health. Not everyone can retrieve anchors. He might have a bad back or any number of medical problems.
Health. Not everyone can retrieve anchors. He might have a bad back or any number of medical problems.
Or lazy
like me! Or maybe he ran out of necessary things to use his boat bucks on..... or has that ever happened? Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8 p.s... Fred! Ol' buddy! How's it going?
like me! Or maybe he ran out of necessary things to use his boat bucks on..... or has that ever happened? Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8 p.s... Fred! Ol' buddy! How's it going?
Old age
and hard use wreck a body. That's why I'm installing mine. As for deals on wire try http://bestboatwire.com/catalog/ But after thinking the problem through I'm putting a separate battery up front in it's own box and I've run two red #8's and one black #8 to it. One red goes to the isolator for engine charging, one goes to the Xantec for shore power charging. The black is tied in as a common ground for the charging systems. #8 is easy to work and a whole lot cheaper. Vinny
and hard use wreck a body. That's why I'm installing mine. As for deals on wire try http://bestboatwire.com/catalog/ But after thinking the problem through I'm putting a separate battery up front in it's own box and I've run two red #8's and one black #8 to it. One red goes to the isolator for engine charging, one goes to the Xantec for shore power charging. The black is tied in as a common ground for the charging systems. #8 is easy to work and a whole lot cheaper. Vinny
Our boat has a 40 pound Danforth with 50 feet...
of chain. I make it a practice of clipping on a 20 pound kellet that slides down to the chain to rope shackle once I set the anchor. Well last year the electric windlass did not work (my fault, but another story) so I had to bring everything up by hand. It was a gut buster, but I got it up. Not sure I would want to do it by hand everytime. I normally bring everything in by hand until the kellet is at the bow roller, then the windlass for the rest. At some point in my life it may be windlass all the way. Terry
of chain. I make it a practice of clipping on a 20 pound kellet that slides down to the chain to rope shackle once I set the anchor. Well last year the electric windlass did not work (my fault, but another story) so I had to bring everything up by hand. It was a gut buster, but I got it up. Not sure I would want to do it by hand everytime. I normally bring everything in by hand until the kellet is at the bow roller, then the windlass for the rest. At some point in my life it may be windlass all the way. Terry
Installation of windlass
Hi Lyle. I too am planning on installing a windlass. My boat is in point Roberts. I went to the Hunter Rendeous this past year and there was a 35.5 Who had a low profile windlass installed in the anchor locker. An aluminum plate was installed on the lower shelf in the locker where the windlass sat. Very nice job. I will probably copy his Idea. Have you picked a Windlass yet for your boat.
Hi Lyle. I too am planning on installing a windlass. My boat is in point Roberts. I went to the Hunter Rendeous this past year and there was a 35.5 Who had a low profile windlass installed in the anchor locker. An aluminum plate was installed on the lower shelf in the locker where the windlass sat. Very nice job. I will probably copy his Idea. Have you picked a Windlass yet for your boat.
Hi Mike
I have not decided 100% yet what kind I will use. As you know Hunter did not design the anchor locker of the 35.5 (or 37.5) for an easy windlas installation. I looked at the Lewmar Anchorman manual windlass this year at the boatshow and am leaning that way due to the ease of installation vs having to run the heavy electrical cable for an electric windlass. Either way with an above deck installation the rode/chain has to be tailed back into the too shallow anchor locker which takes a lot of the advantage out of an elecric windlass and in my opinion creates a safety issue with your hands being too close to the gypsy when the windlass is in operation. Can you elaborate more on the installation you saw at the Hunter Rendezvous - was the windlass installed inside the anchor locker? What kind of a windlass are you looking to install?
I have not decided 100% yet what kind I will use. As you know Hunter did not design the anchor locker of the 35.5 (or 37.5) for an easy windlas installation. I looked at the Lewmar Anchorman manual windlass this year at the boatshow and am leaning that way due to the ease of installation vs having to run the heavy electrical cable for an electric windlass. Either way with an above deck installation the rode/chain has to be tailed back into the too shallow anchor locker which takes a lot of the advantage out of an elecric windlass and in my opinion creates a safety issue with your hands being too close to the gypsy when the windlass is in operation. Can you elaborate more on the installation you saw at the Hunter Rendezvous - was the windlass installed inside the anchor locker? What kind of a windlass are you looking to install?
My 37.5 windlass set up
Hi: I have a 91 37.5 and put on a windlass about 5 years ago. I got a good deal on a Muir windlass that is mounted with the drum gypsy above deck and motor and gear box below in the vee birth area . The windlass is mounted in center of the boat and I put a piece of starboard like material on the rubbing side of the anchor roller /set up that is stock hunter as installed o the boat when new. Rather than risking fingers when flaking the chain rope rode i just use a stick of appropriate length . It had worked well for 5 years.. I use 80 feet chain 200 ft rope I did put pictures on this site at one time, don't know if they are still on here. Mike B. Did you get your heater installed??
Hi: I have a 91 37.5 and put on a windlass about 5 years ago. I got a good deal on a Muir windlass that is mounted with the drum gypsy above deck and motor and gear box below in the vee birth area . The windlass is mounted in center of the boat and I put a piece of starboard like material on the rubbing side of the anchor roller /set up that is stock hunter as installed o the boat when new. Rather than risking fingers when flaking the chain rope rode i just use a stick of appropriate length . It had worked well for 5 years.. I use 80 feet chain 200 ft rope I did put pictures on this site at one time, don't know if they are still on here. Mike B. Did you get your heater installed??
Thanks for all the advice
Thanks for all the advice. Yes I'm getting older and the admiral does not do Anchors so I need all the help I can get. Mickey I have seen your set up and I'm trying to duplicate it. To me this looks like the Ideal set up. I will be using a Quick 1400 watts, but I'm still shoping for the tin wire the best price I have found so far is $7.75 CA per foot for 1/0. Still shoping I'm frugal or is it sheep Thanks Dan
Thanks for all the advice. Yes I'm getting older and the admiral does not do Anchors so I need all the help I can get. Mickey I have seen your set up and I'm trying to duplicate it. To me this looks like the Ideal set up. I will be using a Quick 1400 watts, but I'm still shoping for the tin wire the best price I have found so far is $7.75 CA per foot for 1/0. Still shoping I'm frugal or is it sheep Thanks Dan
One more thing Dan
Hi again: I also re enforced the area where the hole is cut thru the deck with a piece of good quality 3/4 inch marine plywood. I cut out a dough nut shape out of the plywood and epoxied it to the underside of the deck. I also removed a circular area from the roof liner to allow for the plywood re enforcing. Hope this helps..
Hi again: I also re enforced the area where the hole is cut thru the deck with a piece of good quality 3/4 inch marine plywood. I cut out a dough nut shape out of the plywood and epoxied it to the underside of the deck. I also removed a circular area from the roof liner to allow for the plywood re enforcing. Hope this helps..
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