Wind vane for trip to Mexico from Seattle

[Jared1048]

How important would a wind vane be rated by importance for a trip like this? On longer passages (>=10 days) we would have 3-4 people on board and a minimum of 2. Granted they need wind to be effective but are rather expensive. We would leave seattle in mid\late September. I've never made a trip like this so i'm curious to hear from people that have and how often they used it or not.

Then there is the added redundancy in steering if there were a catastrophic failure in the rudder or steering quadrand which almost makes it worth it alone.

Or there is the option of waiting and getting one installed in San Diego after we have had a taste of sailing days on end.

Thoughts?

 

[Steve Dion]

It is a nice option when you are sailing at night. If you are going to do it why not do it before you leave.

 

[Rick D]

Everyone I know going south from SoCal had had an autopilot but none with a windvane. That's a lot of boats. Having said that, a back up rudder rig costs almost as much and it would be nice to have the redundancy and less power requirements. Remember, a lot of that is downwind from SoCal, not the happiest part of a windvane and you want a mechanical for motoring.

 

[Jared1048]

I have an autohelm st4000 but I dont trust it. Its got some demons. Clutch doesnt stay engaged 100% of the time and in following seas it steers like a drunk. It also likes to do a 360 every so often to see if im paying attention. I really dont like it...

I've heard that if you have a dodger (which i recently added) it really effects it.

I'm leaning heavily toward one though

 

[centerline]

How important would a wind vane be rated by importance for a trip like this?
Granted they need wind to be effective but are rather expensive.

Then there is the added redundancy in steering if there were a catastrophic failure in the rudder or steering quadrand which almost makes it worth it alone.



Thoughts?

my thoughts are that you are correct in stating that the wind vane steering needs wind to be effective, but then so does the sailboat....

and the second and most important thing would be, depending on what windvane system you installed, its possible if you were to have a catastrophic rudder failure, the wind vane will be useless at that point because that is what the wind vane system uses to steer the boat.... unless you had the vane set up using a secondary rudder dedicated to it for steering. then you would have redundancy in that you could always steer by hand or autopilot with the main rudder if the vane failed.....

im not sure what system you are interested in, but not all wind vane systems come with their own dedicated rudder....

 

[Stu Jackson]

You might want to check out Scanmar - they represent a number of different makes and models.

 

[kloudie1]

Jared.. Have you installed a rudder position sensor on the autopilot? I fought with mine a long time trying to get tuning right .. then after talking to the RayMarine folks a couple of times, I installed the sensor and my 4000 drives extremely well now. The trouble is that the steering action on the 31's and the 34's is too quick and the action of the 4000 without the sensor is too big an input.

 

[Jared1048]

no rudder position sensor.

it over steering makes a lot of sense now that you mention it. I'll have to look into that

 

[Rich Stidger]

Besides the rudder position sensor, if you have one of the older Corepack course computers, it does not have the yaw transducer built in to it. Adding the external GyroPlus yaw transducer produces a down-wind and following-seas steering experience that is trustworthy.

But for sure you should add the rudder transducer first because the GyroPlus is upwards of $350-400. I got a used on one eBay for something in that range.

 

[Jared1048]

Looks like the rudder position sensor is pretty straight forward to install since I have a wheel and the steering quadrent is right next to the autopilot unit. Found mainsail's installation photos (didnt look like a hunter 31? maybe it was his newer boat or customers). Found it new for $250 which isnt too bad in boat dollars.

I'll probably get the st4000 working good first and circle back around later on the windvane.

Thanks for the info to chew on guys! It would be nice to say "hi" to those on my way south in 2014

 

[robertsapp]

Jared.. Have you installed a rudder position sensor on the autopilot? I fought with mine a long time trying to get tuning right .. then after talking to the RayMarine folks a couple of times, I installed the sensor and my 4000 drives extremely well now. The trouble is that the steering action on the 31's and the 34's is too quick and the action of the 4000 without the sensor is too big an input.

I've got to strongly second this. Our ST4000 did the best drunken sailor imitation you've ever seen on anything except a beam reach. It was basically unusable. But then I put a rudder position sensor on it and set all the user settings to "2", and it suddenly became a capable and competent crewmember in all but quartering seas. And that's not its fault. A boat this light with a fin keel spins like a top when it's picked up by the aft quarter, so it's a bit much to think the autopilot can instantly correct for it.

 

[Richard Deep]

I'll add just a couple of thoughts to the ideas already shared. I have both a Navik windvane and a Raymarine X5 autopilot on my H-31. I have made the trip from SF to San Diego several times (all singlehanded).

I have never been happy with the performance of the Navik. It does reasonable well from close reach to a beam reach, but then the performance falls off dramatically with the wind any further aft. It is just too slow to react (partly because there are a lot of lines and pulleys). And with the H-31, if you don't react quickly, things get out of hand pretty fast. If you miss the small correction, then you need to make a bigger correction, and the unit has a limit on how hard over it can throw the wheel.

As has been pointed out, not every windvane has its own rudder. The Navik (and the Monitor) use the boat rudder (although the Monitor has an option for an emergency rudder). There is a known flaw in the H-31 rudders involving a weld in the SS post. In salt water they will eventually fail. And they do so without any warning. So if yours has not been replaced, beware!

The X5 autopilot works well under all conditions. Mine is tied to the wind data, so it can steer a wind course as well as a GPS or compass course. And of course, it will work when there is no wind.

It does have drawbacks. It uses power, although not an inordinate amount. But enough to be aware of from a battery standpoint. It also has some noise. The little whirring sound as the motor moves back and forth may not seem like much, but listening to it 24 hours a day for several days does get annoying.

Most of the sailing from Seattle to Mexico is down wind and following seas. Whichever self steering system you use, definitely rig a gybe preventer. Neither is capable of steering precisely enough to prevent an accidental gybe in those conditions.

- Richard
s/v Discovery
San Francisco