Winches

thinwater · Mar 9, 2026

If you furl the jib and set the chute, where do you plan to park the jib sheets? (they typically do not, and should not, go through clutches, where they can jam.)
If you hoist the chute without the jib up, wraps are more likely. Just sayin'.
Sometimes both are flown at the same time. Depends on the sails and the boat.
Winches do fail. You'll be glad you have another.
If you get and override, the second winch is used to clear it. The one on the other side won't work.
If shaking out a reef while under sail (good practice vs. using the engine, because the tight jib reduces friction on the hoist by backwinding the main), you need one winch for the halyard and another for the jib sheet.

I could go on. More winches are better.

Foswick · Mar 9, 2026

It just depends on how you want to rig things. Do you "need" two sets? No, not strictly speaking, but Thinwater makes good points.

Our boat is not currently rigged to the cockpit for anything (except sheets, of course). This spring we are rigging the main and spin halyards to the cockpit. But, we'll keep the winches at the mast because they are already there and it gives us more options. I also like to have a clear plan to use a jib winch on any line that runs to the cockpit. So, if I need to, I can repurpose my windward winch to unload some "upstream" hardware or even as a fallback to a failed winch.

One thing many people neglect to think about is that winches aren't just for sails. If you need to ascend the mast, you might want a free winch. But, really important one is that, if you need to retrieve a COB with reduced level of consciousness, you will likely want a free winch.

PaulK · Mar 9, 2026

What Thinwater said. It ain't broke. Don't fix it. Removing the winches will leave holes in the coaming where they were that will have to be filled. The filler color will be difficult to match with the gelcoat. If it doesn't match it will look screwy forever.

FastOlson · Mar 9, 2026

IF.... racing and doing mark roundings, it's great to have Primary (larger) winches that are usually dedicated to the genoa. And also Secondary winches for running the sheet and guy from the spinnaker. And... for other times when it is really helpful to have another winch on the same side of the cockpit, as detailed by others here.
Historical note: until the cost of self tailing winches (and their engineering) got down to the point where ordinary sailors could buy them, flat top winches were the norm. i.e. thru much of the 70's.
Remember those early Barient ST winches? Oh so nice, but real spendy. Most of us got by without ST winches until the patent expired.

Our '88 boat came to us with the factory "winch upgrade" package courtesy of the first owner, and we are fortunate. All were ST, also !
Several years ago I took advantage of the West Marine March 2-for-1 (BOGO) Lewmar winch sale and upsized our housetop winches to larger ST models. (While it is certainly possible to find a sailboat with winches that are "too large" it's rather rare. Higher numerical ratios are a Darned Good Thing.) Our primaries are 46ST, and I would not want anything less than that. At all.)

Happy shopping and Winching!
Aside: (It's been several years since someone's auto-spell changed winch to wench, but the puns were wonderful for several days......)

thinwater · Mar 9, 2026

fred1diver said:
Ok, all very good points, thank you all so much
Now how about the traveller lines?

What is the question?

If you would like to do relaxed sailing using just the sheet and the vang, center the traveler, coil them up, and leave them out of the way.

Additionally, many travelers can be rigged with a continuous control line, such that there are no tails. I have done this on every boat I have owned. Depending on the set-up, you may need to add a pair of blocks to direct the line. You will have a loop of slack in the middle, but no long tails and no tangles.

(Continuous traveler, no tails.)

If you want better control of sail shape and easier adjustment in breezy conditions, uncoil the traveler lines and use them.

Stu Jackson · Mar 9, 2026

fred1diver said:
Now how about the traveller lines?

Just drop the traveller before you tack. If you know how to use it, then centering it makes no sense. if you don't, then do it. DOH...

thinwater · Mar 9, 2026

Stu Jackson said:
Just drop the traveller before you tack. If you know how to use it, then centering it makes no sense. if you don't, then do it. DOH...

A good many boats have no traveler. The OP sounded like he wanted something really simple, so it makes perfect sense from that point of view.

Actually, it depends on what rigging he has. Windward sheeting? Cam cleats on both ends? And what is the best position for coming out of a tack? Peak speed may be above center (but not for all boats), but coming out of a tack a little lower works. If the traveler holds position, easing it before the tack will place it to windward on the new tack, which is probably not what a singlehander wants. He'll go into irons if he mishandles the jib, for example. Normally, it is better to move the traveler above the CL when starting the tack singlehanded, since this will actually help the boat turn, and you won't have a risk of irons coming out. One less thing. Then haul it back up later, after the jib is in, and the course is set.

We could just be misunderstanding each other. Very likely.

jssailem · Mar 10, 2026

fred1diver said:
I am trying clean up the cockpit and get a clean running rigging set up

I understand the feeling/desire to have a “perfect “ set up.

@thinwater ’s suggestions make logical sense. They fit with the narrative.

I think you have limited to no sailing experience with this new to you boat. You are doing a lot of pre thinking. I suggest you finish the projects you have started and take the boat out on the water. Sail her hard with the cockpit as is in a variety of conditions. Get a feel for why the rig and traveler are set up as they are. You may find the 4 winches and the traveler are perfect. Perhaps they only need a little tweak.

I suspect that instead of asking the open ended query:
What should I do with the traveler?
The question will be more focused:
If I make this change will I improve the boat’s handling?

Foswick · Mar 10, 2026

fred1diver said:
My boat has been retrofitted by a previous PO to a wheel instead of the original tiller, so the traveller has been moved to the transom, so when at the wheel I have the back stay and mainsheet around my head at all times (fun) so that is part of the reasons I want to modify the routing of the lines, so I /we can enjoy the boat more.
I thought of going to mid boom sheeting, but too much investment to do. So I am open to suggestions

That bit of context helps quite a bit. And, it helps me understand the photos.

You've already thought about mid-boom sheeting and ruled it out. I get it. And, I'm betting the sheets near your head are more than an annoyance and you've already considered the danger of that. A couple of things aren't clear from the photos. First, I can't tell where your wheel is. Second, I can't tell where, on the boom, the sheet is attached.

Since you mention the sheet is near your head, that suggests the wheel is well aft, relative to the end of the boom. But, looking at pictures of P30s, I can see why it would be configured that way. It looks like the end of the boom would be right about where you would want to put a wheel. With the traveler on the transom, I can see your dilemna.

Have you considered an adjustable mainsheet bridle and doing away with the traveler? This would put the mainsheet in a much safer and less annoying position. Possibly (but not necessarily) combined with a vang, you would still have good sail shape control.

jssailem · Mar 10, 2026

Have you seen the Sirius 35 set up. It is an end boom arrangement to a strong binnacle in front of the wheel.

It might be an option if the structure solves the geometry you are seeking.

There are several YouTube videos which include a discussion of the design and structure.

Foswick · Mar 10, 2026

fred1diver said:
Adjustable mainsheet bridle???
I can’t say I ever heard of that, I will google it later tonight

You might have a hard time finding much info. It is more common on some sailing dinghies, but I have seen this on a P30 and some larger boats. It isn't a common solution because I think the main use-case is to get the mainsheet out of the way and controlling sail shape without the clutter of a traveler and/or vang - more of a problem on smaller boats, typically. A variation on this that combines the bridle with the mainsheet is sometimes called a "Crosby rig". This gives you less control but is wonderfully simple. Probably not what you want, but it might help you visualize this.

There are several variations on the idea, but basically you have an upside-down "V" that forms the bridle. One line runs from the top of the "V" to either side of the cockpit. At the top of the "V" is usually a block and the mainsheet is rigged overhead. You can independently adjust either side of the bridle to effectively perform the same job as a traveler. Some people have them rigged cleverly so that they can adjust the tension of the "V" with one control and the port/starboard position with another - which makes adjustment more user-friendly, but does the same job as two independently-tensioned lines.

The reason I suggest this is that you can position that bridle anywhere - forward or aft, provided you establish strong attachment points.

Here's a simple diagram. The grey circle is the boom. The pink ovals are blocks. The blue line is the mainsheet and it just goes to wherever you want to route it - lots of options there. In your case, I would use a single bridle line instead of two independent lines. In that configuration, the length of the bridle is fixed, positioning that overhead block at a fixed height. Adjusting the bridle line just allows you to move that to port and starboard - like having an overhead traveler.

Stu Jackson · Mar 10, 2026

thinwater said:
We could just be misunderstanding each other. Very likely.

Agreed. If you go back and look at his photos, you'll see (probably) why he asked. The transom location and the way the sheets come out pointing overboard look like they are a bear to actually use. As you point out, there are many other better ways to make this work, involving hardware. My post was for anyone with dumb traveller layout and/or hardware who wanted to use it without any upgrades. Most folks, for example, say "It's so hard to pull it uphill." OK, so drop it first... These come from folks with old Nicro curved travellers or Garhauer 3:1 before they go to Garhauer 6:1.

jssailem · Mar 10, 2026

I did not focus on the structure. I note that the pipes used look to be greater than 1”stainless tubing. It would need to be a custom build in order to have the desired strength.

I’ll review the videos and hope to see the total structure.

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John