Winches: So How Many Actually Take Apart to Clean/Lube

[rardiH36]

How often do most owners look after their winches as prescribed by the manufacturer?

I've had my circa 1980 boat for three years.

Last week I took apart my 2.5 year old Harken 44ST's, which I bought as the primaries soon after the boat purchase to clean all the parts with kerosene/paint thinner as solvent and then do up with new grease. Although I sail 2-3 times a week on average, its in protected waters. So not much salt spray on the winches. The interior of the winches looked very fine. No black grease or buildup of crud.

Today I did the same to the 30 year old cabin top Barients. Previously for these (until I felt inclined to a more proper job), I just squirted some new oil around to loosen up the old caked-up grease. Today, after soaking everything in kerosene, I was pleasantly surprised that I couldn't visually see any real wear to bearings or the gears. (The chrome finish over the bronze drum is another matter...)

After the effort all the winches purr.

 

[Rick D]

I try to do mine every couple of years, altho I hadn't done them the last time around for 5+. They were in pretty good shape. However, the grease was beginning to cake and get in the way of the paws, so it was well-timed.

 

[Blitz]

Good maintenance is cheap insurance. But I have found even every three years they barely need to be cleaned. I think keeping them clean and in good working order depends on many factors:

- amount of hard use

- Do you flush them of salt every time you wash the boat - removing salt but possibly driving dirt up into the fine workings of the winch.

- Do you cover the winches every time when not in use. (sbo has some very good covers)

- And I have known some that remove their winches every winter in the Northeast; extra and extreme but again - cheap insurance.

 

[Calif. Ted]

Funny you mention it, it's been a couple years and I was just feeling guilty enough to start thinking about it. When I spin them by hand they are coming to a stop PDQ, when I first got the boat I don't believe they had been done in 10 years. The grease was so hard soaking in solvents had no effect, had to scrub with small soft brass brushes and toothbrushes (teethbrush? what's the plural?). It took all day to clean each one and 15 minutes to reassemble, I haven't seen anything to compare except an SKS that had been packed in Russian cosmoline (don't think I spelled that right either) for 40 years.

 

[DannyS]

I'm in the process of working my way around our boats winches. One down, four to go.

 

[Ken13569]

Ours are awful. It's my next immediate project (purchased this boat in fall, did the safety items like all new power wireing, just now getting into sailing weather) They are stiff to turn. I cleaned the ones on our old boat once about 4 years ago and they still work great. I wonder if these have ever been cleaned? It's a 1977. That's what happens when you get a good buy on a boat (expect to spend time and $$$)

 

[Benny]

It depends on the use and conditions but I would say on the average every 3-5 years unless one starts acting up. Our starboard side winch does most of the work as it is used for the main halyard either raising the sail or taking someone up the mast besides handling the headsail sheets. A couple of years ago after we broke a paw on that winch we decided to alternate them from side to side every couple of years. Thanks for reminding me is time to switch them again and clean them while we are at it. It is not good for a winch to load it with a heavy load with just a couple of wraps on the line. Do at least three or four wraps. It evens out the forces on the drum and on the inner bearings.

 

[Ted]

Winch maintenance

I've serviced dozens of winches and found one common problem with winches that have been neglected. The pawl pockets seem to be the week link and tend to wear more than any other part of the winch. The light machine oil that most winch manufacturers recommend you use tends to get washed away more quickly than the grease on the bearings. At minimum, you should apply a drop or two of oil on the pawl pockets once a season. I completely disassemble, clean and lube my winches every year and oil the pawl pockets twice a season.

 

[wufibugs]

Let me expose my complete ignorance on this subject by asking, when cleaning/rebuilding a winch, do you generally remove the winch from the boat and rebed with marine caulk, or disassemble leaving the base attached?

 

[rardiH36]

I didn't know the answer until today:

Depends on the winch. For my newer Harken winches, the center bronze support section comes off from the base with the removal of some allen bolts. Then all the parts can be removed without taking the base of the boat.

For my older Barient winches, all the parts couldn't be taken apart without removing the base from the boat. Fortunately this was easy in my case. But if its a winch that's fastened with nuts also behind the backing plate, that could be a major effort.

You should be able to find part diagrams for your winch models on the web. Also you can find general instructions for the process. One item which I've read about that's an absolute must is to take precautions against any parts going overboard. A tarp/blanket between the winch and the lifelines. Cut a round hole in the bottom of a large box to fit over the winch and then disassemble. I did both. Another point is that parts will stick together because of the grease ... then fall off when you aren't expecting.

 

[wufibugs]

I definately like the box idea.

 

[Joe]

Those old barients and barlows are good winches... with excellent bronze castings. Mine are 33 years old and still in fine shape... I used to think I needed new ones because they aren't self tailing... but I've become accustomed to the 2 speed power of both pairs of halyard and primary winches. I just can't rationalize the $3800 it would take to replace them because some people think it's hard to grind and tail at the same time.

 

[Cobalt]

Those old barients and barlows are good winches... with excellent bronze castings. Mine are 33 years old and still in fine shape... I used to think I needed new ones because they aren't self tailing... but I've become accustomed to the 2 speed power of both pairs of halyard and primary winches. I just can't rationalize the $3800 it would take to replace them because some people think it's hard to grind and tail at the same time.

Hi there Joe,

You touched upon something that I wanted to ask you, have you by chance seen or heard of anyone using the rubber self tailing add on's? I saw these at West Marine a few days ago and apparently they turn a normal non-self tailing wench into a self tailing. They're like a big rubber grommet you place on over the top of your drum as seen here (I also attached a photo) They aren't cheap but I'm just wondering if they work or if anyone happens to know anyone who has used these.

Thanks

 

[Stu Jackson]

Winchers

They're called winchers and they work just fine if used correctly. The "jaws" between the top and lower rims shouldn't be used to hold line. The lien simply builds up on the bottom of the lower lip. Compared to the cost of a real self tailing winch, they're a bargain. Many people also do not like them, some because they don't get them to work, others just because. Do a search on "winchers" and you'll find lots of previous discussions. I used them for 12 years on my C25. Thought they were great.

 

[bffatcat]

Winch comments

I also have 4 vintage barlows on my boat. The two speeds are 25 years old the single speeds are 35 years old. I used to clean them every year until I started using synthetic waterproof grease. It last much longer. Now I leave them alone until they get noisy or start sticking. About winchers they are an old product. I dont see them around much any more,
in my area anyway. A friend of mine had a pair on his boat about 20 years ago. He didnt care for them. I didnt either. Ive never owned self tailing winchers. Im kinda used to cranking with one hand and tailing with the other.

 

[rardiH36]

$'s for New Winches as a % of Boat Value

I just can't rationalize the $3800 it would take to replace them ...

Winches are fine pieces of machinery, but yes they are very expensive. I can only guess what the prices would look like if they were a standard feature that everyone needed (say in homes for some reason) ... probably a fraction of the cost.

When a guest notices my new Harkens and asks about them, I like to respond they were my contribution to economic stimulus. The list price for those two little gadgets ='s 15% of the total price I paid for the ENTIRE rest of the boat (which came fully functional with a fine working engine, sails, new standing rigging, a clean interior with new cushions/upholstery, gps chart plotter, auto pilot, tv, microwave, a new vhf etc. and even a ship's bell !).

 

[Ross]

Re: $'s for New Winches as a % of Boat Value

Winches are rather like spring wound watches. They should quietly tick as you turn them. If they start to miss or skip those ticks it is time to take them apart.

 

[Bill1565]

Re: $'s for New Winches as a % of Boat Value

I vote with Rardi. Just paid $3k for a pair of 54's. If the Admiral can't trim the jib in a blow, we might as well have a powerboat. I don't actually get to dissasemble every year but I do intend to. Other stuff sometimes consumes the off season.

I used winchers for years. Loved them on the Great lakes. I suspect the Florida Sun would harden and crack them quickly.

 

[Bill1565]

Have a pair of 15" winch handles for sale. Will soon have Lewmar 40 ST's off and for sale..

 

[meuritt]

18 months ago I bought a 38 year old boat. In the cockpit are two fine two speed self tailing Barients, one of which I have taken apart for maintenance because it wouldn't move at all. I will get to the other.

On the main mast there are two non self tailing winches, not metal, that brown plastic that has a handle like used in the slots on the bronze winches. Last weekend sail we came back to find the main halyard winch lifted off the base by 1/8". I dismantled the winch to access the mounting bolts and found 3 of the four bronze mounting bolt heads MIA, the fourth one fell off when I looked at it cross eyed. All that was holding the winch to the base and supporting the load was the corrosion on the headless bolts. I was able to pry the winch straight off.

To access the back of the mounting base I had to drill 8 aluminum rivets, only then was I able to get the bronze bolts free of the corrosion. Tonight I am ready to reassemble the works.

The condition of the jib winch, bolts and mounting base was identical. Lesson here, check the mounting hardware at maintenance time. I doubt these two winches have ever been serviced.