I just winterized my Yanmar 3GMF with pink RV biodegradable -60 degree antifreeze. The bottle says it contains alcohol. Some say the alcohol in the antifreeze will eat the impeller and seals. Some say it will not. I'm debating if I should flush the system again and use a non alcohol added pink RV biodegradable antifreeze. I live where it never gets below minus 10.
Will -60 pink RV antifreeze with alcohol hurt my 3gmf
- Thread starter hightower
- Start date
- Status
Been doing just that with same motor for 7 years now. We get about the same cold. I check the impeller each tear and is fine.
I used the non-toxic automotive for several years on a previous vessel with glass bowl strainer. Current vessel has plastic bowl strainer which broke after first year, not because it froze but I think because of the antifreeze. I now use the pink stuff because I think it is plastic friendly.
I use the lox-tox type auto antifreeze because it has additives for metal corrosion protection. I've never had a problem with any of my engines or generator for over 25 years.
Additionally, just this year I came across some info that said the RV antifreeze (the pink stuff) is rated for "burst" temperature, not freezing temperature. So if the pink stuff has a temperature of -30 or -50 or -60, it really means that the stuff will freeze at a higher temperature, but that the "protected" lines will not burst until the stated temperature.
I don't think auto antifreeze is rated that way- if a 50/50 solution is good for -35, it means that it won't freeze until -35.
If anyone has info to support or refute these specifications, please chime in.
Additionally, just this year I came across some info that said the RV antifreeze (the pink stuff) is rated for "burst" temperature, not freezing temperature. So if the pink stuff has a temperature of -30 or -50 or -60, it really means that the stuff will freeze at a higher temperature, but that the "protected" lines will not burst until the stated temperature.
I don't think auto antifreeze is rated that way- if a 50/50 solution is good for -35, it means that it won't freeze until -35.
If anyone has info to support or refute these specifications, please chime in.
Good information; However in my question 'Will -60 pink RV antifreeze with alcohol hurt my 3gmf' Are we talking about the same thing??? I'm refering to the system that pumps sea water through the fan belt impeller, then through the heat exchanger, then out the exhaust on a 3GMF. Will these parts be damaged?
I never heard of pink -60 deg propylene glycol "with alcohol" - assume you mean simple propylene glycol. If so, it will not hurt anything. It's a moot point regardless as it is always a good routine maintenance step to check and replace the impeller annually.
Actually, Don..
There's quite a bit of alchohol in the non-toxic potable "pink stuff" for fresh water and sanitatation systems...which is what I think he's referring to. It won't harm anything in his engine, but he's prob'ly better off using the automotive propylene glycol 'cuz it has corrosion inhibitors in it that the non-toxic potable stuff doesn't.
The pink stuff...
This is taken from the product description of the PINK stuff in a major boatstore's catalog:
"...-50° (-46°C) Marine Antifreeze provides the ultimate in cold weather and corrosion protection for drinking water systems and all engines. Its premium additive package prevents corrosion of aluminum, copper, brass and solder, but will not harm rubber, seals or hose materials. The 3X-died bright pink color provides excellent blow-through visibility. Formulated with non-toxic, virgin Propylene Glycol (30% Blend), it is tasteless and contains no alcohol."
If greater (lower temperature) protection is needed, there is the purple and green stuff.
This is taken from the product description of the PINK stuff in a major boatstore's catalog:
"...-50° (-46°C) Marine Antifreeze provides the ultimate in cold weather and corrosion protection for drinking water systems and all engines. Its premium additive package prevents corrosion of aluminum, copper, brass and solder, but will not harm rubber, seals or hose materials. The 3X-died bright pink color provides excellent blow-through visibility. Formulated with non-toxic, virgin Propylene Glycol (30% Blend), it is tasteless and contains no alcohol."
If greater (lower temperature) protection is needed, there is the purple and green stuff.
Ummm...Don....
Glycol IS alcohol. Both the common name and the scientific name indicate it is an alcohol because of the "ol" component.
Google "propylene glycol chemistry" to find more details.
Glycol IS alcohol. Both the common name and the scientific name indicate it is an alcohol because of the "ol" component.
Google "propylene glycol chemistry" to find more details.
Yes, Peggy, you are right...
propylene glycol is chemically a part of the family of organically derived "alcohols". Reason seems that it couldn't have antifreeze capabilities without the properties of alcohol. I'll leave this to the chemists on the forum to sort this out.
propylene glycol is chemically a part of the family of organically derived "alcohols". Reason seems that it couldn't have antifreeze capabilities without the properties of alcohol. I'll leave this to the chemists on the forum to sort this out.
Great information but..Are we talking about the same thing???
Great information but... to my question I pumped-60 pink RV antifreeze with alcohol into the system that pumps sea water through the fan belt impeller, then through the heat exchanger, then out the exhaust on my 3GMF. Will any of these parts be damaged?
If so I have to pump water through it and pump the non-alcohol pink stuff.
Great information but... to my question I pumped-60 pink RV antifreeze with alcohol into the system that pumps sea water through the fan belt impeller, then through the heat exchanger, then out the exhaust on my 3GMF. Will any of these parts be damaged?
If so I have to pump water through it and pump the non-alcohol pink stuff.
Great information but... to my question I pumped-60 pink RV antifreeze with alcohol into the system that pumps sea water through the fan belt impeller, then through the heat exchanger, then out the exhaust on my 3GMF. Will any of these parts be damaged?
If so I have to pump water through it and pump the pink stuff that contains no alcohol.
As i already said, no.
You are complicating the whole issue by confusing the -60 glycol with the generic term alcohol implying you have added alcohol to the glycol solution. Presuming you have not done this, no problem.
The answer is yes and no. Any of the propylene glycols can shorten the life of the rubber whether it is pink, purple or deep green. Usually the engine rated stuff (-60 & -100) have better corrosion packages in them.
As Peggy said glycol is in the alcohol family. Leaving your impeller in the engine however, and not removing it, will probably cause more damage than the pink or purple stuff will.. Of course there are thousands of boaters who do nothing, and winterize with pink, purple or green stuff, and their impellers still last years. In short it is a relative non issue. As others have stated it's a good idea to check or replace your impeller each winter. Mine comes out in the fall and a new one is installed the next spring. Ross on the other hand, another member here, had his impeller installed by a Mastodon and it is purported to still be going strong..
I would leave the -60 in the engine but remove the impeller..
This is a good link for more information:
A Marine Winterizing, Antifreeze, and Engine Coolant Primer
Basically none of the PG stuff should be diluted. The -50, -60 & -100 are all general guides for undiluted burst points NOT set in stone and standardized tested freeze or burst points.
-50 for example contains only about 30% by volume, propylene glycol. Reducing that concentration, through dilution (the water already in the raw water loop), to just 12.5 percent PG by volume, raises the BURST POINT to about 20 F which is a far cry for -50 @ 30% PG by volume.. It is a good idea to drain the raw water side first or just use more antifreeze so you know it is not diluted. My raw water side can hold nearly two gallons of raw water between the strainer, hoses, HX, water-lift muffler and my refrigeration heat exchanger. This could mean major dilution and in Maine that is NOT a good idea.. This is why I drain it first before sucking in the -100 PG..
If you read the label on -60 for example it says copper pipes may burst at -60F but that plastic is only protected to -26F and this is undiluted.
If you are worried just remove the impeller..
My bad, the Mastodon was merely his apprentice at the time..
The point was that some impellers, like Ross' 8 year old one, can last a long time despite any lack of removal or replacement at timed intervals.
Understand, Main.. I had one in a dink motor, '81 model Johnson 4, that was fine after 10 years (may also have been installed by a mastedon, the P.O.) .. I replaced it, but the vane bases weren't even cracked.. they were starting to look as if they were thinking about cracking.. but haden't gotten there yet. It actually had some pretty hard use too, powering the canoe out to the duck blinds and fishing when not on the dink.
I agree about the antifreeze not being a problem.. The stuff is formulated to not attack car hoses and radiator cap gaskets.. similar materials..
We are fortunate here that we don't have to do that task ..
I agree about the antifreeze not being a problem.. The stuff is formulated to not attack car hoses and radiator cap gaskets.. similar materials..
We are fortunate here that we don't have to do that task ..
- Status