Today I got to sail my boat in 15 MPH wind with gusts to something else higher. I had a crew of 3 other able bodied guys who didn't freak out when the boat heeled. I have a compass that measures heel angle. I was able to hold the boat at heel angles exceeding 45 degrees. There was water running on the window in the galley and the window across from the galley when we were on that point of sail. We had three in the cockpit on the high side, and one hanging on the shrouds and leaning over the side. The reason we were able to do this, and hold the boat at that heel angle while ripping along, was that we had an Idasailor rudder on the stern of the boat. At that heel angle, there is less rudder in the water than if the hull were level, yet the rudder was able to resist the roundup even at that point. It was on the edge of stalling, I guarantee that, and many times the boat would round up out of control with a stalled rudder. I was resisting the roundup with maximum tiller throw, on the edge of a stalled rudder, sometimes a little more gust would take it away. Is there anyone who thinks that their stock Mac rudder would do that? My stock rudder would not even come close to holding off the roundup, even at way less heel angle. The lack of airfoil shape of the rudder causes a stall and the loss of control. I have had both rudders, a stock Mac and an IdaSailor. There is no way to compare the two. John S Boise WILD UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS OF IDASAILOR RUDDER PERFORMANCE!
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Flame
Ok, so go ahead and flame away. What I read was a number of owners had their after market rudder broken thru normal use. This was the FIRST time I ever heard of any rudder breaking. -I was rather suprised no one posted on this issue before now. So what are the FACTS? The FACTS as I see them, is they handle great, and can take extreem stress.. but for how long? and what conditions? I dont know? JohnS has the rudder for what, 6 months? and is a lake sailor. Also, It appears the failues have been in the ocean, not in lakes. what does that mean? Do waves effect strenght? I dont know! BUT I hope you can understand why I would want to know... I sail in somewhat remote places in the winter, where theres little traffic and no cell phone reception. A broken rudder could be a life and death issue. Anyone else have a first hand failure? or, Alternativly, how long have you had your aftermarket rudder, and where do you sail?
Ok, so go ahead and flame away. What I read was a number of owners had their after market rudder broken thru normal use. This was the FIRST time I ever heard of any rudder breaking. -I was rather suprised no one posted on this issue before now. So what are the FACTS? The FACTS as I see them, is they handle great, and can take extreem stress.. but for how long? and what conditions? I dont know? JohnS has the rudder for what, 6 months? and is a lake sailor. Also, It appears the failues have been in the ocean, not in lakes. what does that mean? Do waves effect strenght? I dont know! BUT I hope you can understand why I would want to know... I sail in somewhat remote places in the winter, where theres little traffic and no cell phone reception. A broken rudder could be a life and death issue. Anyone else have a first hand failure? or, Alternativly, how long have you had your aftermarket rudder, and where do you sail?
No Flames
No Flames, not even some smoke. You are right to be concerned. Just want to remind you there are a lot of these rudders on the left coast. They have an ocean, too. I had to laugh because the konk krusers started to claim that there exists no performance advantage in the IdaSailor rudder. In there rush to condemn, one guy said that he could "shove the rudder where the sun don't shine". I'll take that rudder. Then you, Mr Bill, link their bad mouthing directly to two message boards that I know of, possibly more. You don't seem to be simply concerned, you seem to want to assist these guys by spreading their ill-conceived statements. That's Ok. It's a slow day as far as projects go. Why don't you let us know what you really want to say? John S Boise bear bait
No Flames, not even some smoke. You are right to be concerned. Just want to remind you there are a lot of these rudders on the left coast. They have an ocean, too. I had to laugh because the konk krusers started to claim that there exists no performance advantage in the IdaSailor rudder. In there rush to condemn, one guy said that he could "shove the rudder where the sun don't shine". I'll take that rudder. Then you, Mr Bill, link their bad mouthing directly to two message boards that I know of, possibly more. You don't seem to be simply concerned, you seem to want to assist these guys by spreading their ill-conceived statements. That's Ok. It's a slow day as far as projects go. Why don't you let us know what you really want to say? John S Boise bear bait
Let's graph the breaks
I'll wade in here a little. If in fact there exists a material or design issue it would be a shame not to work through it. For offshore sailing where pressures or flexing might be an issue there could be a beefier version or perhaps these rudders need just a little re-design to reduce fatigue. That is why I suggest each failure be reviewed or photographed. Graphing defects and direction of failure could prove invaluable to IdaSailor in improving their product. I did this very thing for 30 years for the RCA Picture Tube Division. Our tubes were the best in the World because we wanted them to be. Of course the French just gave us away to the Indians. That's why I retired 2 years ago, but I digress. Each of you who has a broken rudder experience would be best suited by describing the break, where, direction, how long you had the rudder, where holes were drilled and what size hole etc...We're looking for commonality and weaknesses. Also for where it's strongest. This material may be subject to certain stresses, especially under the UV of strong lower lattitudes. I suspect it's a simple fix but can't be done in the dark. IMHO Steve
I'll wade in here a little. If in fact there exists a material or design issue it would be a shame not to work through it. For offshore sailing where pressures or flexing might be an issue there could be a beefier version or perhaps these rudders need just a little re-design to reduce fatigue. That is why I suggest each failure be reviewed or photographed. Graphing defects and direction of failure could prove invaluable to IdaSailor in improving their product. I did this very thing for 30 years for the RCA Picture Tube Division. Our tubes were the best in the World because we wanted them to be. Of course the French just gave us away to the Indians. That's why I retired 2 years ago, but I digress. Each of you who has a broken rudder experience would be best suited by describing the break, where, direction, how long you had the rudder, where holes were drilled and what size hole etc...We're looking for commonality and weaknesses. Also for where it's strongest. This material may be subject to certain stresses, especially under the UV of strong lower lattitudes. I suspect it's a simple fix but can't be done in the dark. IMHO Steve
info please
What I want is more info. the conch's didnt reply on their board, I emailed a few directly, we will see... also emailed joel. Again, I want to know more. what is unfortunate, was I did NOT know know Any rudder had broken. ever. (I was shocked to read their posts) As you know, I read a lot of mac stuff, and am very suprised to find they broke a total of 4, in 3 trips of 1 week each.... I'm sure they work great. (havent tested mine yet). yeah, and maybe they lie.... no idea. Actually I figured you (johnS) would be able to shed some light on this, if its true, and how they occur. if nothing else is learned, at least I'll know to take a spare on an offshore venture.
What I want is more info. the conch's didnt reply on their board, I emailed a few directly, we will see... also emailed joel. Again, I want to know more. what is unfortunate, was I did NOT know know Any rudder had broken. ever. (I was shocked to read their posts) As you know, I read a lot of mac stuff, and am very suprised to find they broke a total of 4, in 3 trips of 1 week each.... I'm sure they work great. (havent tested mine yet). yeah, and maybe they lie.... no idea. Actually I figured you (johnS) would be able to shed some light on this, if its true, and how they occur. if nothing else is learned, at least I'll know to take a spare on an offshore venture.
I agree
I agree, Steve Paul. One thing I know is this HDPE has ultraviolet resistance causing a color difference from non-UV resistance HDPE. I can't tell anything about broken rudders without seeing one, and I am not saying anyone lies about their breakage. I am saying that the rudders that I have seen that are broken, both IdaSailor and any others, were exposed to stresses other than those encountered by simply cutting through the water. John S
I agree, Steve Paul. One thing I know is this HDPE has ultraviolet resistance causing a color difference from non-UV resistance HDPE. I can't tell anything about broken rudders without seeing one, and I am not saying anyone lies about their breakage. I am saying that the rudders that I have seen that are broken, both IdaSailor and any others, were exposed to stresses other than those encountered by simply cutting through the water. John S
Just used mine for the first time this past weeken
Had my new rudder delivered form Idasailor last Wednesday. Left town with it on Friday to go to the Great River race in Guntersville, AL. 72 mile race with 15+ mph winds. We came in last (we've only been sailing for a year, now, and I had 7 people on board) but it was great fun. The Idasailor rudder really was nice, though. The boat had almost no tendency to round up, no matter how far we heeled. Also, I was very surprised at how little I had to hold the tiller. It hardly pulls at all, anymore, and the boat would track straight (at least on a beam reach) without using my tiller tamer and without me holding it at all. I don't think it helped me point any higher, but I'm still very happy with it.
Had my new rudder delivered form Idasailor last Wednesday. Left town with it on Friday to go to the Great River race in Guntersville, AL. 72 mile race with 15+ mph winds. We came in last (we've only been sailing for a year, now, and I had 7 people on board) but it was great fun. The Idasailor rudder really was nice, though. The boat had almost no tendency to round up, no matter how far we heeled. Also, I was very surprised at how little I had to hold the tiller. It hardly pulls at all, anymore, and the boat would track straight (at least on a beam reach) without using my tiller tamer and without me holding it at all. I don't think it helped me point any higher, but I'm still very happy with it.
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