(widgeon or javelin) vs ds1

[John Stevens]

I sold my DS1 a year ago to buy a 14 catboat. I like a lot of things about the catboat, simple and quick setup and storage. But, I really miss the DS1 sailing characteristics and comfortable cockpit, the speed and the stability in one.

I've thought of selling the cat from time to time and thought of a DS1 again but really don't need something that big, it would be easier to store a smaller boat in my garage. Wondering if there is anyone on the forum familiar with the three boats and the difference in comfort and sailing characteristics as compared to the DS1? Or even another 12-15 footer not mentioned. I looked at a Bauer 12 too.

 

[Sunbird22358]

John, sorry for not getting back to you on this yet (been busy with car troubles and hauling out my DS II today).
Either the Widgeon or Javelin could be good choices, either will be a good performer, both are easy to single-hand, trailering either should work well (mast stepping on a 1971-83 Widgeon can be a challenge due to location of mast step) with practice, and either will fit in most garages (mast on Widgeon is 18'8" long, Javelin mast is 23'1").
I've never sailed a Javelin, but they seem like they would be pretty close to a DS in rigging. The 49# galvanized steel centerboard should aid stability a bit. As you know, I owned a 1969 Widgeon for 8 years, and that was a great little sailboat! I even had a spinnaker! Easy to sail, but still kept up with much larger boats...... I would say a good boat for 1-2 adults, more will be crowded. The larger Javelin (not much longer, 14' vs 12'4", but 8" wider) will be more comfortable, and sail more like a DS (same designer, and very similar hull shape) also being bigger, she will be more stable and better able to handle the wind.
The Javelin is basically the same size as that Picnic Cat that you have, but seems more roomy to me (more stretch-out space?).
A few other boats to consider: 1981-84 O'DAY 15, O'DAY Osprey (Rarer, but a smaller, 15'8" version of the DS I, more of a rounder bottom), Galilee 15, Boston Whaler HARPOON 4.6 (also 15', but you more or less sit on top of the deck), DYER 12' DHOW (more of a sailing dinghy than the Widgeon, but roomier. More $$ possibly), HOBIE ONE 14' (also sold as the HOLDER 14).

 

[John Stevens]

Thanks for the reply. I'm interested in something that is somewhat comfortable to sit in so some of the boats, although great boats, I probably wouldn't consider. That was a big plus with the DS1, it was comfortable and sailed well.

What made you go from the Widgeon to the DS1?

 

[RussC]

What about the Sunbird…. Sunbird? looks near perfect but I haven't owned one myself.
We started with an AMF Puffer. that's an AWESOME sailing little boat, but it proved to be rather small for us, so I bought a Capri 14.2. I think it would be pretty hard to find a boat of this size with more useable cockpit room than the 14.2, and it also is a very nice sailing boat that's pretty fast (semi planing), easy to setup and sail, as well as being easy to store in the garage.

.02,
Russ

pic added Catalina Capri 14.2

 

[John Stevens]

Hi Russ,

Funny, I took lessons years ago on a Sunbird and then used to rent Capri 14 at the local lake. Both good boats, Sunbird probably a little too big. I looked at a Puffer a few years ago but ended up with the DS1 which I loved.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Sunbird22358]

John, I sold the Widgeon after I picked up a 14' "project" in hte form of a (brace yourself!) powerboat, I really couldn't justify trying to maintain 2 boats at the time and reluctatly decided to sell the Widgeon. I found that the 14' powerboat was great in calm weather, letting me explore distant harbors on Buzzards Bay... what would take nearly a full day to reach and return with our CAL 21.... became a quick morning ride in a little 14' powerboat pushed by a 10 hp outboard. However, on a typical Buzzards Bay afternoon......... the powerboat was pretty wet and limited me to the cove in front of our cottage (or a wet run if I ventured further).
So, I decided to go back to sail (ironically, it was watching an AMF Sunbird sailboat easily riding over the waves while i mushed along in the powerboat, my Widgeon would have also taken those seas fine, that I firmed up that decision.) I origianlly thought about a Javelin, a nice step up from the Widgeon (didn't want to give up the roominess of the 14' powerboat!) but then remembered that a neighbor had his Day Sailer II sitting unused in his Sister's backyard. After some strong encouragement by the Mother of the DS II owner to call him....... I did call him and reached deal on the Day Sailer. That was 19 years ago and I still enjoy the DS II......... the Widgeon was great, but especially since my dad sold our CAL 21 in 2008, I'm glad to have a bigger boat than the Widgeon.

OH, and for those that might be curious. The name of my DS II really has nothing to do with the AMF "SUNBIRD" sailboat, my Widgeon was named BLUE BIRD (she was blue and a Widgeon is a kind of duck), I didn't really want to name my new bright yellow boat "BLUE Bird", and Yellow Bird seemed too corny, so, I figured that the Sun is yellow, like my boat.... and she became "SUNBIRD".

 

[John Stevens]

Thanks for the reply. I wonder about the steel centerboard on the Javelin. I have galvanized bolts on my trailer that eventually rust out.

Any problems with that centerboard?

 

[Sunbird22358]

I haven't heard of any major problems with that Galvanized Steel CB, ones from the 1960's still look OK if cared for..... D&R Marine does sell a stainless-steel replacement, but cost is more than the original Galvanized version. A thought wire-bushing followed up by a few coats of POR 15 (an epoxy-based metal coating sold mostly at auto parts sources, but definitely marine quality!) will preserve/restore the CB. That coating is used by many MARINER owners to restore/protect the cast-iron CB on those boats. Good article in a back-issue of GOOD OLD BOAT Magazine about that.

Picture below is of a 1969 model.

 

[John Stevens]

Rob,
Thanks for the info on both my posts.

John