There are two boats berthed nearby mine that have hard vangs and topping lifts. I don't understand. I thought the only reason for a hard vang was to eliminate the need for a topping lift. I've thought about getting a hard vang, but not until I figure out this little mystery. If the owners would ever show up and sail their boats, I'd ask them. In the meantime, does anyone else know the reason?
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Different Functions.
Paul: The rigid vang us used to control the shape of the sail typically for down wind sailing (usually holding the boom down). It is used to control twist in the sail and flatten the sail. It can also function as a device to hold up the boom with the sails down. The topping lift will hold them boom up in the event that there is not a rigid vang and can also be used for sail shape. Obviously you cannot flatten your sail with the topping lift, but by releasing the topping lift and tightening the main sheet you can alter the shape of the main.
Paul: The rigid vang us used to control the shape of the sail typically for down wind sailing (usually holding the boom down). It is used to control twist in the sail and flatten the sail. It can also function as a device to hold up the boom with the sails down. The topping lift will hold them boom up in the event that there is not a rigid vang and can also be used for sail shape. Obviously you cannot flatten your sail with the topping lift, but by releasing the topping lift and tightening the main sheet you can alter the shape of the main.
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Tom Wootton
Maybe it's not...
...a topping lift. Some sailors run the main halyard out to the end of the boom when not in use, to keep it from slapping on the mast.
...a topping lift. Some sailors run the main halyard out to the end of the boom when not in use, to keep it from slapping on the mast.
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Dan
Topping lift or halyard
Tom, In fact my 356 is setup that way. It has in mast furling and a spare halyard. It is attached at the rear of the boom. We have the rigid vang also. An earlier post talked about failure of the in-mast furling and what could be done to release the main sail. I would let go of the outhaul and use the spare halyard to wind the whole sail up around the mast. That would keep it from flopping around too much until other alternatives could be utilized. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Tom, In fact my 356 is setup that way. It has in mast furling and a spare halyard. It is attached at the rear of the boom. We have the rigid vang also. An earlier post talked about failure of the in-mast furling and what could be done to release the main sail. I would let go of the outhaul and use the spare halyard to wind the whole sail up around the mast. That would keep it from flopping around too much until other alternatives could be utilized. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
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David L
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Guest
I know what a boom vang is...
... for heaven's sake. It sounds like it might well be the main halyard. What would the presence a Dutchman have to do with it? Paul
... for heaven's sake. It sounds like it might well be the main halyard. What would the presence a Dutchman have to do with it? Paul
Dutchman.
Paul: The Dutchman system uses the topping lift line to attach the lines to. There are usually two or three lines that are attached to the topping lift. These lines are then threaded thru the sail (in plastic eyelets) and the attach to the foot of the sail. When the sail drops the sail is captured on the boom.
Paul: The Dutchman system uses the topping lift line to attach the lines to. There are usually two or three lines that are attached to the topping lift. These lines are then threaded thru the sail (in plastic eyelets) and the attach to the foot of the sail. When the sail drops the sail is captured on the boom.
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Bob Todd
I got rid of my topping lift...
when I installed a rigid vang. Properly installed, it will be slightly compressed with the mainsheet holding the boom at horizontal. This way, when you release the vang it forces the boom up or you can tighten it to draw the boom down giving you complete control of sail shape. Cheers, Bob
when I installed a rigid vang. Properly installed, it will be slightly compressed with the mainsheet holding the boom at horizontal. This way, when you release the vang it forces the boom up or you can tighten it to draw the boom down giving you complete control of sail shape. Cheers, Bob
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Jon W
Limits boom movement while powering
On my boat, when cranking down the mainsheet to keep the boom centered and still, the spring loaded vang will let the main boom swing and bounce around quite a bit (mainly while motoring in choppy conditions) unless the mainsheet is tightened against the firm resistance of a topping lift. Plus I also have the Dutchman system.
On my boat, when cranking down the mainsheet to keep the boom centered and still, the spring loaded vang will let the main boom swing and bounce around quite a bit (mainly while motoring in choppy conditions) unless the mainsheet is tightened against the firm resistance of a topping lift. Plus I also have the Dutchman system.
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Peter Brennan
I use them both
The solid vang does more than hold up the boom. It gives a 20:1 advantage compared to about 8:1 for a rope vang and allows far better control of the leech in all sail positions. I believe it makes a traveller unnecessary. With the vang released the topping lift will put the boom at a height where it won't bump heads. Between the two, you get infinite leech control. Also, as another mentioned, the combination of topping lift and main sheet rigidly controls the position of the boom when under power. No bouncing or swinging and at a comfortable height.
The solid vang does more than hold up the boom. It gives a 20:1 advantage compared to about 8:1 for a rope vang and allows far better control of the leech in all sail positions. I believe it makes a traveller unnecessary. With the vang released the topping lift will put the boom at a height where it won't bump heads. Between the two, you get infinite leech control. Also, as another mentioned, the combination of topping lift and main sheet rigidly controls the position of the boom when under power. No bouncing or swinging and at a comfortable height.
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Paul
20:1? Not that I can find...
I just checked west marine, and the most expensive rigid vang they sell has an 8:1 purchase. Most are 6:1. My rope vang is 4:1, and I can pull the leech as tight as a guitar string with it -- aided by a Lewmar ST30, of course. After reading everyone's input, it's clear that there is no particular reason for having both a topping lift and a hard vang. So, I can go ahead and remove my topping lift when I install the rigid vang, and it won't be catching on the protruding roach of my B&R mainsail anymore. I use "vang sheeting" all the time, but a traveller is not unnecessary in my view. I think the most important purpose of a traveller is to provide a way to pull the boom to centerline when close hauled in lighter air. Try that without one!
I just checked west marine, and the most expensive rigid vang they sell has an 8:1 purchase. Most are 6:1. My rope vang is 4:1, and I can pull the leech as tight as a guitar string with it -- aided by a Lewmar ST30, of course. After reading everyone's input, it's clear that there is no particular reason for having both a topping lift and a hard vang. So, I can go ahead and remove my topping lift when I install the rigid vang, and it won't be catching on the protruding roach of my B&R mainsail anymore. I use "vang sheeting" all the time, but a traveller is not unnecessary in my view. I think the most important purpose of a traveller is to provide a way to pull the boom to centerline when close hauled in lighter air. Try that without one!
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Chris Gonzales
I HATED mine...
I have removed the topping lifts from my last two boats and added rigid vangs. I could never get used to seeing that line up there flopping around, and all too often, getting hung up in the mainsail battens. My next boat will not have a Dutchman system simply because I don't want that topping lift! Chris
I have removed the topping lifts from my last two boats and added rigid vangs. I could never get used to seeing that line up there flopping around, and all too often, getting hung up in the mainsail battens. My next boat will not have a Dutchman system simply because I don't want that topping lift! Chris
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