Why the label "Satan's Glue"

[Chris Nowell]

I've been using 3M's 5200 sealant for years on the advice of the boat yard that I originally dealt with in Vancouver. I've always thought of it as the #1 product in the world for use on parts that you NEVER want to leak or come off. Since converting from power to sail and joining this site I've heard a number of very experienced and knowledgeable people referring to this stuff as "the devil's glue". Has it been wrong to have been using it on my boats in the past? When we finally locate the Cat 27 that's right for us I want to be sure that EVERYTHING I do to it is done correctly. My understanding is that a properly repaired and maintained sailboat could last me a very long time even though it is permanently moored and only hauled out once every year.

Many thanx for all the input, information, and an excellent site. I should have done this decades ago.

 

[Ross]

I would call it that because taking something apart that has been assembled with 3M 5200 can be the very devil.

 

[onecoolair]

I've been using 3M's 5200 sealant for years on the advice of the boat yard that I originally dealt with in Vancouver. I've always thought of it as the #1 product in the world for use on parts that you NEVER want to leak or come off. Since converting from power to sail and joining this site I've heard a number of very experienced and knowledgeable people referring to this stuff as "the devil's glue". Has it been wrong to have been using it on my boats in the past? When we finally locate the Cat 27 that's right for us I want to be sure that EVERYTHING I do to it is done correctly. My understanding is that a properly repaired and maintained sailboat could last me a very long time even though it is permanently moored and only hauled out once every year.

Many thanx for all the input, information, and an excellent site. I should have done this decades ago.

For stuff I know I will be taking apart or may need to access. And do not want to destroy. I will use Goop. For stuff that needs to be more permanent I use 5200. Like stanchions deck hardware etc. Depending on how much I am going to use and how fast I need it to set I will either use the fast cure or slow cure. Most times one or two smaller tubes from walmart will do. Same with the goop. I always make sure to dry fit everything first. So I do not end up with a mistake and a mess. When I first started sailing almost 40 years ago it seems all I had to chose from was life chaulk. At the time it was the best. In my experence I have found the life chaulk to be less reliable and even harder to remove then 5200. Anyway this is just what I have found to work best for me.

 

[justsomeguy]

When I was in the building trades, I made some pretty good money fixing other tradesperson's errors.
Think of the next owner of your boat!

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

For stuff I know I will be taking apart or may need to access. And do not want to destroy. I will use Goop. For stuff that needs to be more permanent I use 5200. Like stanchions deck hardware etc.

I think you will find the conventional wisdom is that stanchions and deck hardware are the types of things most often requiring rebedding for various reasons, e.g., leaks, replacement, repair, etc... 5200 has it's utility for permanent items only. Someone on here sells butyl rubber which some folks seem to prefer but any adhesive which stays flexible and is intended to seal rather than simply adhere (5200) would serve you better.

 

[kenn]

It's the devil's glue because:
- it smells
- it's mostly (but not completely) permanent and hard to remove when set. On one fix I made, it let go of some stainless steel after a few months
- it can take forever to set (ok, for me a week is forever)

Handy tip: while 3M 5200 is still wet, it can be removed easily with WD-40.

 

[onecoolair]

I think you will find the conventional wisdom is that stanchions and deck hardware are the types of things most often requiring rebedding for various reasons, e.g., leaks, replacement, repair, etc... 5200 has it's utility for permanent items only. Someone on here sells butyl rubber which some folks seem to prefer but any adhesive which stays flexible and is intended to seal rather than simply adhere (5200) would serve you better.

I forgot about the butyl rubber tape. That stuff comes in handie for all sorts of things. I keep several rolls of this on board. Makes for great casket materal and insulating. Used it to wrap the concendation pans on my a/c units.
I had to remove a stanchion and some other things before, that was bedded in lifechaulk. It was not fun to remove. There have been other times were I had to remove similiar idems which were bedded in 5200. I found the 5200 actually easier to remove. I was able to peel it off using a putty knife, I may have soaked it with a little asetone or a paint thinner first. The rest just sanded off. I was able to sand and polish it off the stainless too...I found the lifechaulk to soft to sand off well. I have use 5200 to seal mistaken drilled holes in gelcoat. Wetted it smooth. After it cured then sanded and polished it. Blended right in to the white gelcoat.

 

[capta]

5200 & beyond

I think the easiest way to put it is that 5200 is an adhesive, NOT a bedding compound. Properly used (in an improper place) it can result in tearing fiberglass lamination apart.
I personally have had very bad results w/ butyl rubber products on a boat, but there are those who swear by it.
I heartily agree w/ Don S/V ILLusion, stanchions & deck hardware are definitely NOT items to glue down permanently.
I do wonder why no one has mentioned the only product which has been used for bedding things on a boat for centuries; "bedding compound"! Last time I bought some it was labeled "Bedlast" bedding compound. Mind you the stuff only last 15 or 20 years, but really.....

 

[onecoolair]

It's the devil's glue because:
- it smells
- it's mostly (but not completely) permanent and hard to remove when set. On one fix I made, it let go of some stainless steel after a few months
- it can take forever to set (ok, for me a week is forever)

Handy tip: while 3M 5200 is still wet, it can be removed easily with WD-40.

What did you do to prepare the stainless? Any sanding,removing of wax/polish,eching of area of stainless to be bonded done?
Did you use the fast or slow cure. I found the fast cure easier to remove at a later date and slow cure more permanent. For me slow cure seems to set up harder. But if slow cure is protected and allowed to slowly cure it will self level better and have a harder higher gloss finish. Though I would not want to use the harder stuff were it would need to be more flexable. Thats why I somes like to use the goop. Each application is going to be a little different. So you just have to try and make the right call.

 

[Ross]

3M 5200 does not bond well to stainless steel. Check their data sheets.

 

[zeehag]

why do folks insist on use of a glue as a bedding compound--which, btw, is specifically stated on packaging. is a glue, not a bedding product. lifeseal, silkaflex and others are bedding compounds and if ye like 3m, use 4200--which IS a bedding compound.

 

[Stu Jackson]

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117172

'Nuff said, just read it.

 

[Chris Nowell]

Stu, yeh, I just found Maine's post. I'm lucky there are people around who take the time to share their knowledge and experience.

Thanx EVERYONE for the input once again. We still can't get over the degree of support you folks offer. Cheers !!!

 

[Rob19574]

Lots of good opinions here. With the exception of perhaps a Keel, deck-joint and rub-rail -- I don't think anything is really "permanent" on a sailboat. You want to have the ability to disassemble everything at some point.

I like to 4200 / 3M for all my bedding needs. Bonds and seals well and comes apart when needed. The small tubes keep better. Fast cure makes projects a breeze.

- Rob

 

[Stu Jackson]

Hull & deck joint, yes. Keel joint, no. Why, 'cuz one day you might want to or need to drop it. I haven't yet heard of anyone taking their deck off the hull.

 

[tkanzler]

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117172

'Nuff said, just read it.

I just started using the butyl tape I bought from Maine Sail, and I couldn't be happier. It's soooo much easier to deal with than smelly glop-in-a-tube, won't go bad from sitting (I keep it sealed in a baggie at home, just because), and so far it's worked well for rigid hardware (like cleats), and relatively flexy things like a round, thin SS louver I added to a fixed plexi window in the head. The tutorial in the link is outstanding.

It's not a replacement for every type of sealant, but for my immediate needs for leaky deck hardware, it's been great.

 

[Maine Sail]

Butyl...

It's not a replacement for every type of sealant, but for my immediate needs for leaky deck hardware, it's been great.

Bingo! There is no ONE SINGLE sealant for working on boats. Each job has needs and some require different products.

Even, gulp 5200, has applications that it is okay for. The reason it is called Satan's Glue is because so much hardware, port-lights, instruments, teak & gelcoat have been destroyed by the stuff over the years it has "earned" its well deserved reputation as Satan's Glue...... If it lasted forever, and never leaked, EVER, then fine glue it on, but it doesn't, so don't....

Heck even silicone has a place on a boat so you just need to chose the right poison for the right job...

This spring alone I destroyed a number of older Signet, Datamarine & other instruments that could have been kept for spares or used for spare "impossible to find" parts. 3M 5200 or similar made sure they would never again be used and only came out in pieces....

 

[Fred Villiard]

" haven't heard of anyone taking their deck and hull apart" Holly in deep on my v17 did

Fred Villiard

 

[Stu Jackson]

Guess there's always "someone." Thanks Fred.

 

[JohnS]

I forgot about the butyl rubber tape..... Makes for great casket materal ....

Will it keep zombies from rising out of their graves?