Why So Many Critics

[serenity4u2]

I am new to the sailing world. Plan on buying and living on my boat. Debated monohulls vs catamarans. I found the latter to spendy. There are so many nice boats out on the market. I really fell in love with the Hunter 45 CC... My family owns a hunter 33... So many other forums say Hunters are not blue water cruisers, they do not hold thier value, etc... Is the criticism valid?? I am comparing a Tartan 44 DS with the Hunter 45CC... Besides sailing the Pacific North West (san juan islands).. I may desire to go long distance cruising.. Is the Hunter a Blue water cruiser? Or more of a coastal cruiser? Figure I would ask some hunter owners...

 

[Alan]

serenity4u2

You are always going to get detractors of Hunters. Most of these folks have probably never sailed one. Getting advice and ideas from owners is a great source of info and this forum is dedicated to just your type of question.Though I don't have a 45, I am a repeat Hunter owner from h34 to h35.5 and I'm still very pleased with my choice.Every boat manufacturer has his niche and since Hunter is the largest manufacturer in this country they have to design their models for the largest target market, coastal cruisers. That doesn't mean that Hunters can't be sailed offshore, they can and are. More often than not the limiting factor is the skill level of the skipper than the ability of the boat to weather sea.When and if you decide to go offshore you should have a decent amount of knowledge of boat handling and whether or not your boat is capable of the trip.Cheers

 

[Daryl]

Buy the Tartan

Yup, Hunters are coastal cruisers unless you have more balls than brains (some folks here do)

 

[Alan]

Wonder why...

....he's trolling this site?? *oIf Hunters are such a poor choice, why is he here?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

probably legit

AlanI assume he is asking a legitimate question given all the people who like to voice criticism as a means of appearing knowledgeable. Although I am happy with my boat, we do principally coastal sailing and dock living, both of which I don't think could be better accommodated in another brand. If I ever wanted to cruise the Pacific or an Atlantic crossing, I'd probably want something different like a cutter rig and larger tankage or modify our H for both.

 

[Fred Ficarra7897]

Some thing here will never change.

Right Daryl?

 

[Jim Seamans]

Been a multiple Hunter owner

And very satisfied with my choices. Currently own a H356, and in 2009 my wife told me we are sailing to Bermuda, in the H356. We do coastal cruise but are ready to go off shore to Bermuda and to the Caribbean.

 

[S/v Grace2583]

Bluewater? You bet!

I'm a new owner of a Hunter 450 Passage. These days, this model is called the 45 CC. I too had heard all the comments about Hunters, so I did my homework before buying. Way back when, Hunter was tagged with a reputation. From what I read, it seems deservedly so. But like people, things change. The Passage models (420 and 450) were the first boats that Hunter made which received an unlimited ocean-going rating. The boats are kevlar reinforced in the bow and under the water line. Their numbers are a bit light for my preferences, but there are many people that have taken them offshore, around the world, and managed some pretty heavy weather conditions.Mike Harker took a 466 across the atlantic and pacific in 2002. Most recently he took a STOCK Hunter 49 around the globe in a year. And he's not the only one. Many people hang on to Hunter's old reputation because, so it seems to me, they are a bit leary of the backstay-less rigging. Or because they have preferences to what boats they do like and use the old reputation to downplay the Hunter. In all honesty, some people just don't like the Hunters...and that's fair.The question wasn't about what boats we like or dislike, it was addressing the safety and stability of offshore use. To that question I have to answer "Yes, some of the Hunter models are built for offshore use and meet those demands quite well".

 

[serenity4u2]

thanks and more input is welcomed

I want to thank the many people who took the time to respond. I have heard that Hunters have improved... hoping all boats have as well.. I am a long time coastal and protected water sailor... Very much a novice and in classes for off shore sailing. I want affordability... Hunter seems to meet that need.. I also want a safe boat... I sail on my dads hunter 33 and its a nice boat. We only sail in the protected waters of the pugent sound (seattle) and some san juan island sailing. That boat is to small for me to live on. Remember I am selling my home and want some space at the dock, lol... I have went into other forums where people tell me hunters build boats like houses.. People only see the godies but not the structual integrity. That may or may not be true.. It does make sense to me.. Since I am selling my home and am putting things into it that have buyers appeal like wood floors, granite tops, etc... I know very little about keels, thru holes - Think that was one criticism I heard in a forum.. Cruising world dot com has a hunter site that explains the backstay thing to me and it makes sence.. Just curious about those hunter owners who go off shore.. Sailing the carribean sounds nice... Thanks All

 

[newly anonymous]

I think that much of the Hunter bashing...

...comes from the marine industry itself. Sooner or later that fellow trying to sell you the Tartan has to come up with a reason his boat costs twice as much as a comparable Hunter. Now I grant you that the Tartan is a nicer yacht: epoxy hull, carbon spars, finer cabinetry below. But is it worth TWICE what that Hunter is worth?Ahem. So he's gonna tell you that the Hunter is really not a bluewater boat, at which point you should look him square in the eye and say, "Horsefeathers!" Or some derivative thereof. A rational consumer will realize that the Hunter, as compared to the Tartan, is no less capable of voyaging offshore in the same manner that the Ford, as compared to the Jaguar, is no less capable of traveling on an interstate highway. Unfortunately, as a result of some fundamental insecurity as offshore sailors, some consumers become so gullible that they buy into the Hunter bashing themselves. As evidence of this personality type, please read the second reply in this thread. This gentleman, too insecure to even tell us what state he hails from, wants us all to believe that he's a superior sailor (more brains than balls?) because he owns a more expensive boat. Horsefeathers.

 

[serenity4u2]

Thanks John

John, My first sailing course was at Olympic Circle Sailing at Berkley Marina.. I sailed the BAY... Actually my sailing course was at treasure island navy base (no lnmger exists) Then went to Berkley to charter boats... How does your hunter hold up sailing in those windy waters of the bay? Sailors told me if you can sail these waters you can sail anywhere. In fact I was a member of the NSA Navy Sailing Association.. They would not allow thier boats out if the winds were to strong. I showed them my sailing card from treasure island and said sailors do not expect less then 20 knot winds on any day.. Angel island was tricky... LOL Thanks John..

 

[newly anonymous]

she rocks

Serenity,I sail an H46LE out of the South Bay, and in two years the boat has never whimpered at anything the wind gods around here have thrown at her.Because I've been teaching abroad during the summer/winter/spring breaks ever since having bought this boat, I haven't had much opportunity for a long passage; I've only been able to do coastal cruising with her so far. Drakes Bay, Monterey, et cetera. But my previous Hunter, a 410, stood up to some really nasty stuff over a period of eight years where we put a ton of miles on her. No worries. The freeboard is nice when it gets snotty. You reef, you cope, and you brag once you're back in the yacht club.Same as on a Tartan.

 

[Landsend]

Hunters are good boats however, the fact is that there are

much better blue water cruisers.

 

[S/v Grace]

Yes, that is a fact

There are many models of boats that are better bluewater cruisers. Unfortunately, while the world may be my oyster, I can't afford one. That being the case, I'll happily take my hunter anywhere.

 

[newly anonymous]

Better? Yes! Better for the buck? Probably not.

I will grant you that, for the cruiser to whom money is no object, there are better boats.For the sake of argument, however, let's assume that a cruiser who wants a new boat has a total budget of a quarter of a million dollars, including not just the base price of the boat, but electronics, canvass, sails, et cetera. Cruiser A decides to invest his $250K in a boat with prestige name and a boutique price tag, and walks away with a High Zoot 32.Cruiser B decides to invest his $250K in a Hunter and, after getting a great deal at the boat show, ends up with a Hunter 44, fully equipped. (And by that I mean such things as EPIRB, life raft, a spare rudder, radar, SSB, et cetera.)Now, boys and girls, which boat makes the safest, most comfortable, FASTEST passage? The High Zoot 32, with its traditional 26-foot waterline, or the Hunter 44, with its 39-foot waterline? Do the math for a minute, and you'll discover that the Hunter's theoretical maximum hull speed is 8:34 knots as compared to the High Zoot's speed of 6.88 knots. Guess what? The Hunter, for the same money, will move you almost a knot and a half faster through the water. Multiply that speed differential over a 2,000 nm passage, and the Hunter arrives in port four or five days ahead of the High Zoot. For a quarter of a million bucks, which boat is the best bluewater cruiser? Before you answer, consider the fact that a cruiser has to carry a lot of weight, including such things as all-chain rodes, a watermaker, some sort of charging system, lots and lots of fuel and water, gallons and gallons of grog, et cetera. Now, when you add that weight to the 44 footer, you're gonna put it down an inch or two on the waterline. But what happens to that cute little High Zoot when you turn her into an actual cruiser? You can bet the farm she's gonna settle at least six inches on her lines, turning her into something of a dog. For most of us--and by "us" I do not refer to the independently wealthy--the best bluewater boat is the one with the longest affordable waterline. I realize that my Hunter lacks pilot berths, has too large a cockpit for stormy conditions, et cetera. On the other hand it's a sound hull with plenty of tankage (200 water, 100 fuel, something the High Zoot 32 isn't going to come close to) and a sturdy rig. Only a crackpot is going to worry about a boat such as mine foundering in the middle of a passage. Or someone trying to sell you a High Zoot 32.

 

[JohnnyMac]

Is that Manatee?

Ed, is that Manatee at Hopetown Harbor? It seems I missed seeing her at Put-In-Bay last summer. I am just sick. Hopetown is a wonderful place. My visits were in chartered boats. Someday I would like to take my "rickety" Hunter there from Lake Erie. Maybe Daryl would crew.JohnnyMac H380S/V Dawn Treader

 

[serenity4u2]

Thanks again John

John, Thanks again for your input... You raised some more questions for me.. PLease respond.. Hope others will as well... Three boats I am looking at.. 45DS, 45CC, 49... Recall I will live on boat. sail mostly puegent sound (seattle) and some san juan islamd sailing. Coastal to CA.. Can not wait to sail in the bay.. Of course the warmer weather of San Diego will drive me south. (despite lighter winds..yuc). Recall me saying as a member of the navy sailing association. San Diego would not allow us to charter boats when the winds kicked up. What they called small boater warnings was routine sailing for us in the Bay. Do dream of sailing to Hawaii.. OK my questions..Since you raised the issue of too large a cocpit.. Would the center cocpit be a better boat. What kind of options would be required as add ons to make a new factory hunter a boat both capable of long coastal cruising and even a long off sure passage. I am really talking more about structural things.. not the obvious electronics, lol.. Third, can hunters be modified at the factory for such purposes? Or are there specialties custom shops that can do such modifications? Fourth, I have heard that hunter makes boats that are hard to get to places need for repairs.. Electrical, plumbing, etc.. Are you aware of this or even agree with that notion? If so, these are some of those modifications I may be talkinmg about.. THANKS AGAIN MY FRIEND...

 

[serenity4u2]

JOHN PLEASE READ BELOW

John, is was a post in another forum I received regarding hunters.. The person seems sincere and is where my questions about areas of improvement. Fctory or after factory.. Here is that persons post... Hunter only has one thing going for it. ALOTA BOAT FOR THE MONEY for first time buyers and money conscious buyers. If you don't mind fast depreciation.Hunters are pretty much designed by the marketing department to appeal on the showroom floor. They have good layouts and appoint their boats well. They show very well and hold up under light usage. What do I mean by this? Well the folks at Hunter know what sells boat and what convinces people that they are higher quality. Countertops, sinks, faucets drawerfronts, AC, generator, stoves refrigerators, wood, nice color schemes on upolstery and shine. The same things people look for in a house. You will find corrian counter tops, good faucets, good sink, nice stove and refrigerator, nice drawer fronts, AC, generators, wood and plenty of shine. First time buyers are familiar with houses. Since they use nice things where you can easily see, where do they save all that money? Where you cannot see. Hull layup, hull resins, re-enforcements, engineered woods, engine mounts, tanks, hardware, rigging, hull-to-deck joints, keels, keel bolts, heat exchangers, wiring, plumbing. The same places the home builders cut the corners. The problem is, a boat is not a house.Hunters have good layouts. Good layouts mean very open and airy in the salon, Galley area. Translation, few bulkheads and hull re-enforcements, dangerous areas where bodies can be thrown some distance if hit by a big wave. Some Hunters sail well while others are dogs. Some research would be necessary to determine this. Most proponents of hunters are not mechanically inclined nor do they bother to understand all this stuff. What they do understand it that they spent a good deal of money and are happy to justify this to themselves by talking up their boats. Do I blame them for building that way? NO, that is what the buying public wants and nothing will change until that changes. If you want a cheap top quality boat with a commercial grade interior you will have to commission building it yourself. Of the entry level builders, Catalina is probably the best that is currently building. They build some integrety into their hulls and rigging while skimping on fabrics, wiring, plumbing and such. Pearson was the best builder on the cheap end. They were decent boats. I have owned one hunter back in the 70's and sailed plenty of them.--------------------Only dead fish flow with the current.

 

[serenity4u2]

John.. start with my first reply please..

John... Being more specific... It was this other person answer regarding hunters desighn.. Things I know very little about.. Things that I am asking... could I pre order improvements onthese areas.. Here was that persons response that grabbed my attention.. Since they use nice things where you can easily see, where do they save all that money? Where you cannot see. Hull layup, hull resins, re-enforcements, engineered woods, engine mounts, tanks, hardware, rigging, hull-to-deck joints, keels, keel bolts, heat exchangers, wiring, plumbing. The same places the home builders cut the corners. The problem is, a boat is not a house.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

ask for facts

SerenityI think lots of us have already dispelled this typical lament of someone who doesn't appear to know of understand the same can be said and is true of ANY boat manufacturer.If I were you and I was really taking any of these comments seriously, which I don't having owned a number of different boats over the years of varying cost, I would simply ask whoever wrote the above to provide some specifics if he can.Virtually all boats use the same engine mounts, wiring, heat exchangers (obvioulsy part of any engine), hardware, keels (except Beneteau which has some reason for using lead), etc... so on it's face, the quote seems pretty naive.