I am interested in purchasing our (my wife & I) 1st sailboat, and have an interest in: 1. Hobie Cat 16-18' 2. Hobie 1 & Holder 14 3. Lightning 4. O'Day Day Sailor Your comments, please. We are not experts, and are soliciting advice. My wife is conservative, and i am the "Alpha." Thanks! Gary
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my 2 cents
Gary - I am not familiar with #2 but I am with #1 (owning one). If you say your wife is conservative - and if you want to get her interested in sailing, I would rule-out #1 initially. But for the thrill seeker, you can't beat a beach cat so your in a catch 22 here. 2 or 3 might be somewhere in the middle for you both. Rob
Gary - I am not familiar with #2 but I am with #1 (owning one). If you say your wife is conservative - and if you want to get her interested in sailing, I would rule-out #1 initially. But for the thrill seeker, you can't beat a beach cat so your in a catch 22 here. 2 or 3 might be somewhere in the middle for you both. Rob
Daysailor .....
Of all the boats you list the daysailor probably has the best 'manners', simplest rigging, and easiest of all to sail. If you want a bigger boat later on .... let (insist) your wife be the 'captain' at least 50% of the time. <grin>
Of all the boats you list the daysailor probably has the best 'manners', simplest rigging, and easiest of all to sail. If you want a bigger boat later on .... let (insist) your wife be the 'captain' at least 50% of the time. <grin>
Hobie 16 & 18 ... great fun ...
I've seen many Lightning's on our lake because they have a racing fleet. They are probably fun to sail but I think they are oriented toward the hard core racing fleet sailors. Many people race the Hobie Cats but I think they are much more oriented toward the recreational sailor for pure fun. I had a Hobie 16 and always regret that I sold it. Sailing off the beach in the ocean, I may prefer the 18, but you would be surprised how much fun a 16 is when riding swells or punching through waves! I don't know what you mean by "conservative". I'm conservative (with my definition) but that doesn't mean I don't like to get wet or have a lot of fun!
My wife is also conservative and her favorite boat when we went to Antiqua was the Hobie Cat (by far). She wasn't so thrilled sailing the small daysailors and dingies they had there (I did like them because they were very good performing boats). But we were in the Caribbean, Man! With the warm water, and flying the hull in a warm breeze, she was having a blast trapping out on the wire while we were flying the hull. In Florida, what could be a problem with getting wet and wild? My wife did remark that if we had a Hobie up here, she would probably want to wear a wetsuit because getting wet on Hobie is a sure thing and we are not always so warm! I'd bet you would have the most fun on a Hobie ... every sailor should own one at some point in their life!
I've seen many Lightning's on our lake because they have a racing fleet. They are probably fun to sail but I think they are oriented toward the hard core racing fleet sailors. Many people race the Hobie Cats but I think they are much more oriented toward the recreational sailor for pure fun. I had a Hobie 16 and always regret that I sold it. Sailing off the beach in the ocean, I may prefer the 18, but you would be surprised how much fun a 16 is when riding swells or punching through waves! I don't know what you mean by "conservative". I'm conservative (with my definition) but that doesn't mean I don't like to get wet or have a lot of fun!
My wife is also conservative and her favorite boat when we went to Antiqua was the Hobie Cat (by far). She wasn't so thrilled sailing the small daysailors and dingies they had there (I did like them because they were very good performing boats). But we were in the Caribbean, Man! With the warm water, and flying the hull in a warm breeze, she was having a blast trapping out on the wire while we were flying the hull. In Florida, what could be a problem with getting wet and wild? My wife did remark that if we had a Hobie up here, she would probably want to wear a wetsuit because getting wet on Hobie is a sure thing and we are not always so warm! I'd bet you would have the most fun on a Hobie ... every sailor should own one at some point in their life! Try before you buy ...
If you want to get a great chance to sail a large variety of small boats (including a Hobie beach cat), you might want to book a trip to Sunsail Club Colonna in Antiqua. You can sail all you want for a great all inclusive price, have a great time at the resort, and take lessons only if you want. It is a fantastic place for informal fun and as much sailing as you can stand! They have a decent selection of windsurfers, too, and often have conditions that will have you out board sailing instead (all inclusive)!
If you want to get a great chance to sail a large variety of small boats (including a Hobie beach cat), you might want to book a trip to Sunsail Club Colonna in Antiqua. You can sail all you want for a great all inclusive price, have a great time at the resort, and take lessons only if you want. It is a fantastic place for informal fun and as much sailing as you can stand! They have a decent selection of windsurfers, too, and often have conditions that will have you out board sailing instead (all inclusive)!
Hobie 16 is a great boat
I learned to sail on a Hobie 16. They are a lot of fun. They do have some issues though. If you are looking at used ones, be aware that the hulls can delaminate and create soft spots. Don't buy a boat with soft spots, you will regret the work it will create for you. Also make sure the trampoline is in good shape and has foot straps. New tramps are fairly expensive. Also, it take two people to raise a mast on a Hobie 16, so make sure your wife is up to helping with that. I had great fun with mine, and highly recommend them. Comfort wise though, you would do better with something you could sit in and have a backrest. The Hobie 16 can be uncomfortable after a while, although it does make a great sundeck. Also, it is not a cold water boat. You get very wet on a Hobie.
I learned to sail on a Hobie 16. They are a lot of fun. They do have some issues though. If you are looking at used ones, be aware that the hulls can delaminate and create soft spots. Don't buy a boat with soft spots, you will regret the work it will create for you. Also make sure the trampoline is in good shape and has foot straps. New tramps are fairly expensive. Also, it take two people to raise a mast on a Hobie 16, so make sure your wife is up to helping with that. I had great fun with mine, and highly recommend them. Comfort wise though, you would do better with something you could sit in and have a backrest. The Hobie 16 can be uncomfortable after a while, although it does make a great sundeck. Also, it is not a cold water boat. You get very wet on a Hobie.
What do you want to do!
1. Hobie Cat 16-18' 2. Hobie 1 & Holder 14 Above are go very fast. You have to harness off and fly above the water on these boats. Better be in good shape. 3. Lightning Go fast boat. You'll have to hang over the side but not have to harness off. 4. O'Day Day Sailor Relax and slow down. Get a nice lunch and enjoy the day boat.
1. Hobie Cat 16-18' 2. Hobie 1 & Holder 14 Above are go very fast. You have to harness off and fly above the water on these boats. Better be in good shape. 3. Lightning Go fast boat. You'll have to hang over the side but not have to harness off. 4. O'Day Day Sailor Relax and slow down. Get a nice lunch and enjoy the day boat.
http://www.cmcs-sail.org/
for the friendly Ft. Myers sailing club. always someone looking for crew. Vic "Seven"
for the friendly Ft. Myers sailing club. always someone looking for crew. Vic "Seven"
Wet Bodies, Wet Butts, Wet Stuff, or Dry Storage
The catamarans will offer thrills, but you'll be wet, and there is no place to store anything. If you're after the athletic challenge, it's a good choice. If not, there's no sense sitting on a trampoline: it's uncomfortable for long periods. The Hobie 1 & Lighting offer performance, but at least there are benches to sit on while sailing. They're open dinghies, so when they go over, everything gets wet or sinks to the bottom of the bay. The sail controls are more sophisticated and may take a while to master. The O'Day has a cuddy cabin and will be the best-behaved little yacht. More simply rigged, she's not the performer the others are, but it will offer more comfort, you'l be able to store your jackets & picnic lunch, bucket, bailing scoop, & sails, and looks to be more forgiving (less likely to capsize while you're learning to sail). How comfortable does you wife want to be? Is she willing to have the boat capsize, sending everything, including her, into the water? What does she expect to bring along? If I had a wife, I'd go for the O'Day.
The catamarans will offer thrills, but you'll be wet, and there is no place to store anything. If you're after the athletic challenge, it's a good choice. If not, there's no sense sitting on a trampoline: it's uncomfortable for long periods. The Hobie 1 & Lighting offer performance, but at least there are benches to sit on while sailing. They're open dinghies, so when they go over, everything gets wet or sinks to the bottom of the bay. The sail controls are more sophisticated and may take a while to master. The O'Day has a cuddy cabin and will be the best-behaved little yacht. More simply rigged, she's not the performer the others are, but it will offer more comfort, you'l be able to store your jackets & picnic lunch, bucket, bailing scoop, & sails, and looks to be more forgiving (less likely to capsize while you're learning to sail). How comfortable does you wife want to be? Is she willing to have the boat capsize, sending everything, including her, into the water? What does she expect to bring along? If I had a wife, I'd go for the O'Day.
Go Slower, Go Farther
Gary, just caught your "my wife is conservative, and I am the Alpha." Happy wife, happy life. DEFINITELY the O'Day, then when she has had a season of good experiences of afternoon sails in the bay (not getting dunked in the water) to treasure in her heart forever, or whatever, she'll be open to the idea of a weekender, like a Catalina 22.
Gary, just caught your "my wife is conservative, and I am the Alpha." Happy wife, happy life. DEFINITELY the O'Day, then when she has had a season of good experiences of afternoon sails in the bay (not getting dunked in the water) to treasure in her heart forever, or whatever, she'll be open to the idea of a weekender, like a Catalina 22.
Here is a rather down at heels O'Day 17'
which as others have noted is a very comfortable first boat. http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/7077 The sails are stained a bit and there is growth on th bottom but it is a fun boat that I have sailed across to Great Sound at Bermuda (6 miles - no big deal except for the funnel cloud that did not turn into a water spout). Here is a picture of an O'Day/Rhodes 19' that I have overnighted on not in total comfort: http://www.faysboatyard.com/site_page_139/item_59570.html This boat you can sleep on and usually has a centerboard and an engine but limited privacy and head accommodations. Do not be distracted by the females on board in the picture. But wait! There are many Catalina 22' owners you have not heard from yet who will tell you that it is the a great starter boat. It all depends on how you want to sail and be on the water and how much. Bigger boats cost exponentially bigger bucks and my biggest is 27' and my maintenance log is on the website if you are concerned you are getting in over your head: http://www.odalisque.us/ It is a passion first and a hobby second so I really suggest you rent some of the models you have asked about and inform yourself. That will be the best way for you to make an informed decision. Attitude is everything; is it a challenge or a problem? Wishing you well.
which as others have noted is a very comfortable first boat. http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/7077 The sails are stained a bit and there is growth on th bottom but it is a fun boat that I have sailed across to Great Sound at Bermuda (6 miles - no big deal except for the funnel cloud that did not turn into a water spout). Here is a picture of an O'Day/Rhodes 19' that I have overnighted on not in total comfort: http://www.faysboatyard.com/site_page_139/item_59570.html This boat you can sleep on and usually has a centerboard and an engine but limited privacy and head accommodations. Do not be distracted by the females on board in the picture. But wait! There are many Catalina 22' owners you have not heard from yet who will tell you that it is the a great starter boat. It all depends on how you want to sail and be on the water and how much. Bigger boats cost exponentially bigger bucks and my biggest is 27' and my maintenance log is on the website if you are concerned you are getting in over your head: http://www.odalisque.us/ It is a passion first and a hobby second so I really suggest you rent some of the models you have asked about and inform yourself. That will be the best way for you to make an informed decision. Attitude is everything; is it a challenge or a problem? Wishing you well.
keep looking!
The older Day Sailors are not self-rescuing boats. I've served race committee on a few DS regattas, and am amazed at how easily they capsize in a stiff breeze, not to mention how difficult they are to right once they're swamped. Why would anyone want a boat that requires another boat's assistance to right itself? There are certainly other boats in that size range that that are more seaworthy without sacrificing speed or comfort. Look at newer designs.
The older Day Sailors are not self-rescuing boats. I've served race committee on a few DS regattas, and am amazed at how easily they capsize in a stiff breeze, not to mention how difficult they are to right once they're swamped. Why would anyone want a boat that requires another boat's assistance to right itself? There are certainly other boats in that size range that that are more seaworthy without sacrificing speed or comfort. Look at newer designs.
Another choice
You might want to think of an updated style. Catalina 16.5 is a very comfortable daysailer...big cockpit, easy to rig and alot more stsble (7 ft. beam) than the oday. Forget the cats. Unless you and your bride want to be wet and uncomfortable of course. That's just my opinion; I've had both and I loved my 16.5. Good luck
You might want to think of an updated style. Catalina 16.5 is a very comfortable daysailer...big cockpit, easy to rig and alot more stsble (7 ft. beam) than the oday. Forget the cats. Unless you and your bride want to be wet and uncomfortable of course. That's just my opinion; I've had both and I loved my 16.5. Good luck
Former day sailor owner
You have some apples and oranges in your mix of choices. If you don't mind getting wet, then of course get a Cat and be at one with the water, so to speak. If you want a nice afternoon's sail, with cooler and gear on board, then get a day sailor. However, you must manage your affairs so that you never, never capsize it. If you do, there goes your cooler, perhaps other gear as well, and you won't be able to get it back up again. I owned my boat four years and never capsized it. If I bought another one, I would get a storm jib and a reef points added to my mainsail, because I generally had to drop sails and motor whenever the winds approached 20 mph. I had a wife and small child on board, and capsizing just wasn't a risk I would take. That brings up another advantage of the day sailor over the Cat. You can put a small outboard motor on the day sailor, and give yourself a lot more maneuvering room in marinas. You also give yourself a way to get in quickly on a calm day, or in advance of approaching weather. I didn't try to put a porta potty under the small cuddy on the daysailor, but it would have been nice to have one. That's where going a little bigger, to the pocket 21 or 22' cruiser, makes some sense. You have a place for a potty, and you have a keel (or water ballast, in some cases) for extra stability. As for the Lightning, it is a higher performance boat than the day sailor, has no storage cuddy, and for my money would be preferable over the day sailor only if you wanted to race it in class races at your marina.
You have some apples and oranges in your mix of choices. If you don't mind getting wet, then of course get a Cat and be at one with the water, so to speak. If you want a nice afternoon's sail, with cooler and gear on board, then get a day sailor. However, you must manage your affairs so that you never, never capsize it. If you do, there goes your cooler, perhaps other gear as well, and you won't be able to get it back up again. I owned my boat four years and never capsized it. If I bought another one, I would get a storm jib and a reef points added to my mainsail, because I generally had to drop sails and motor whenever the winds approached 20 mph. I had a wife and small child on board, and capsizing just wasn't a risk I would take. That brings up another advantage of the day sailor over the Cat. You can put a small outboard motor on the day sailor, and give yourself a lot more maneuvering room in marinas. You also give yourself a way to get in quickly on a calm day, or in advance of approaching weather. I didn't try to put a porta potty under the small cuddy on the daysailor, but it would have been nice to have one. That's where going a little bigger, to the pocket 21 or 22' cruiser, makes some sense. You have a place for a potty, and you have a keel (or water ballast, in some cases) for extra stability. As for the Lightning, it is a higher performance boat than the day sailor, has no storage cuddy, and for my money would be preferable over the day sailor only if you wanted to race it in class races at your marina.
More Daysailer thoughts
Some further things to think about with an O'Day Daysailer: Some of the later models, including the ones currently being manufactured are self-rightable, because they seal off the cuddy area with a bulkhead and watertight hatch. It's the filling of the cuddy area that makes those boats so hard to right in their original design form. As mentioned earlier, competently handled, the Daysailer should not capsize in normal brisk sailing. I recommend having two sets of jib cleats, depending on whether you are single-handing or not. If you are single-handing, you need jib cleats to be located pretty far aft, so that you can re-set the jib without leaving the helm. However, if others are on board, the rear-set cleats interfere with their comfort, and those passengers can serve as your crew, so in that situation you will want a set of jib cleats mounted just aft of the cuddy. The reason I mentioned having some storm capability in your rigging set-up (reefable mainsail and optional smaller jib) is that the Daysailer doesn't point worth a darn without a jib. To enjoy a sail on a windy day, you need the ability to mount less sail area while still mounting a jib. One thing that makes the Daysailer fun to sail is that it has a planing hull, and makes good speed under light winds. You can also put four people comfortably in the cockpit. We even sailed with four adults and two children and had a good time.
Some further things to think about with an O'Day Daysailer: Some of the later models, including the ones currently being manufactured are self-rightable, because they seal off the cuddy area with a bulkhead and watertight hatch. It's the filling of the cuddy area that makes those boats so hard to right in their original design form. As mentioned earlier, competently handled, the Daysailer should not capsize in normal brisk sailing. I recommend having two sets of jib cleats, depending on whether you are single-handing or not. If you are single-handing, you need jib cleats to be located pretty far aft, so that you can re-set the jib without leaving the helm. However, if others are on board, the rear-set cleats interfere with their comfort, and those passengers can serve as your crew, so in that situation you will want a set of jib cleats mounted just aft of the cuddy. The reason I mentioned having some storm capability in your rigging set-up (reefable mainsail and optional smaller jib) is that the Daysailer doesn't point worth a darn without a jib. To enjoy a sail on a windy day, you need the ability to mount less sail area while still mounting a jib. One thing that makes the Daysailer fun to sail is that it has a planing hull, and makes good speed under light winds. You can also put four people comfortably in the cockpit. We even sailed with four adults and two children and had a good time.
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