Why Only One Reef Point - Older Catalina Full Baton Sail

[rardiH36]

Hello Catalina Owners:

For the last couple of years I have been using a second-hand full baton Catalina 36 mainsail (number on it was 1700, now removed) on my 1980 Cherubini Hunter 36. Its been a fine sail and fits my boat well.

But I've always wondered why only one reef point? Was this standard on original issue for Catalina?

Just wondering. Comments appreciated.

On SF Bay I am finding the need for a second reef point, but not sure worth the expense to modify an older sail.

regards,

 

[Calif. Ted]

I don't recall ever seeing a "factory" Catalina main that wasn't a single reef point, at one time I believe that the Ullman loft in Ventura was a supplier for the sails, possibly from overseas. Don't know what's happening now that the Catalina factory is in Florida.
It's a pretty deep reef, usually a sail with 2 reef points will have smaller reefs that combined are only a little more sail area than a single. A second reef on your present sail would have to be pretty close to the first or you'd end up with a "Storm sail" with a lot of baggage on the boom when double reefed.

 

[rardiH36]

Ted:

Thanks for your response. Yes, I have noticed that the single reef on the Catalina 36 mainsail is quite deep and using it does enable controllable sailing in quite strong winds. But still it leaves just a bit too much sail area for the blows we often get on SF Bay which the second reef point on my conventional sail does takes out. Over the last couple of years while out in stiff winds, I've a few times seen some Catalinas with the main sail reduced to the single reef struggling a bit. That's another reason why I was wondering what the Catalina designers had in mind by supplying OEM main sails with only one reef point. As I commented, the Catalina sail is a fine one for my boat and I'm very pleased to have it. Usually, wrapping my head sail around the furler to the equivalent of ~65-75% along with the single reef point on the Catalina mainsail works ok.

Lots of wind in the SF over this past weekend. I had other commitments so I wasn't out. The wind plus current got one 30' sail boat in fatal trouble. It was somewhere in the vicinity of San Francisco's Cliff House / Seal Rock (a rough, wind-swept and rugged spot) when diners noticed a boat that appeared to be struggling. The news reports haven't said what actually happened. Both people on board died despite CG attempts to save them.

regards
rardi

 

[Stu Jackson]

...I have noticed that the single reef on the Catalina 36 mainsail is quite deep and using it does enable controllable sailing in quite strong winds....I was wondering what the Catalina designers had in mind by supplying OEM main sails with only one reef point. As I commented, the Catalina sail is a fine one for my boat and I'm very pleased to have it. Usually, wrapping my head sail around the furler to the equivalent of ~65-75% along with the single reef point on the Catalina mainsail works ok.

Lots of wind in the SF over this past weekend.

rardi -

1. Catalina made sails for their boats with "options" on the # of reef points the skippers wanted when they made the sails. I have "Leading Edge" sails with two reef points on our C34 that the PO and first owner bought instead of Catalina factory sails. Leading Edge was a local loft here in the Bay Area. They were a bit better quality and much better shape than the 1986 sails Catalina had produced. Catalina quickly got lots better at sail making when they found no one was ordering sails with their C34s because even back then word got around very quickly. Most all sail makers will give you the option of the # of reef points you want in your sail. Many of the Catalinas were sailed in southern California. Skippers down there have sometimes boasted "I don't need no stinkin' reef on our mainsail!" They do have comparatively lighter winds down south. So, it's NOT a "Catalina sail" issue.

2. In 13 years with Aquavite and over 12 years before that on our C25, I have put a double reef in our mainsails only twice, and once was for practice! We sail with a 110 jib during the winter and a 95 during the summer. This past weekend had notoriously higher than usual winds for The Bay. The reason was NOT the 'traditional" summer winds, but rather another winter storm that came through on Friday. We sailed up to Napa for the weekend on Thursday (calm and warm going up) and it was very breezy on Friday and Saturday while at the dock at the Napa Valley Yacht Club. Had a great sail down San Pablo Bay yesterday, glad the storm came through on Friday - Saturday. So, don't compare this weather with just heavy summer weather, 'cuz summer has not yet arrived. At this rate, it may never show up!

I figure you should be OK with that deeper single reef on your partially furled jib when (and if) the usual summer weather ever shows up. Most struggling Catalinas you see on The Bay have a way too big head sail and usually aren't reefed. Even if they are, their big headsails are killin' 'em since most Catalinas are mast head rigs.

 

[Calif. Ted]

Many of the Catalinas were sailed in southern California. Skippers down there have sometimes boasted "I don't need no stinkin' reef on our mainsail!"

Stu really hit the nail on the head, sometimes seems like I'm the only one reefed.
Very few boats down here seem to reef when it's appropriate.
We get those same afternoon summer strong breezes in the upper Catalina channel
I was right behind a un-reefed 320 once that was so overpowered in the gusts that 2 guys couldn't hold the wheel and the rudder would stall, heeled so far it looked like trying to push a bowl thru water.

 

[rardiH36]

Speaking of reefing: Re the 2 sailboaters who died on Sunday off San Francisco's Seal Rock/Cliff House, I just saw on the local news a helicopter view of the boat which eventually went aground on the rocks near China Beach. The sails are still set and they are not torn. The mainsail is reefed and the head sail is unfurled only to storm sail size. The crew must have been experiencing quite a blow. While statistics show that sailing is a low risk activity, this is another reminder to me that one can't be too careful.

Here's a link to an article with picture:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/05/26/BADL1DKFV2.DTL

 

[rardiH36]

rardi -

In 13 years with Aquavite and over 12 years before that on our C25, I have put a double reef in our mainsails only twice, and once was for practice!

I figure you should be OK with that deeper single reef on your partially furled jib when (and if) the usual summer weather ever shows up. Most struggling Catalinas you see on The Bay have a way too big head sail and usually aren't reefed. Even if they are, their big headsails are killin' 'em since most Catalinas are mast head rigs.

Hi Stu:

Sounds like a good few days you had in Napa. I was out last Friday with some friends sailing around just inside the GG Bridge. We had wanted to strike out under towards Kirby Cove and back, but a strong wind developed coming in right through the Gate and we had a significant flood current at the time. A few boats were trying to beat their way out ... not making much (or any) progress. We had on the single (only) mainsail reef and the 135 Genoa was furled to maybe about 100. Fun and exhilarating ride and not over powered.

I would agree that a second mainsail reef usually shouldn't be necessary for bay conditions. But that's if crew/guests don't mind an aggressive sail. Even with the head sail wrapped up a lot, the Catalina main sail on the second reef still presents a lot of square footage. With 50's - 60's age friends, and with younger people who have not sailed before, I'm more comfortable toning down the experience. (Also with extra non-sailor people in the cockpit, its somewhat more difficult to constantly adjust the sheets, and with non-sailing type conversations going on I'm less attentive in any case.) The 2nd reef on the traditional sail that was on my boat when I bought it does reduce the heel even in strong bay wind days. If everything is going well with guests, or the wind is light, I can always ramp up by letting out more Genoa. As many have posted on these forums before (including Don Guillette) with my mast head rig, the head sail generates a lot of motive power, even with a heavily reefed mainsail.

Thanks for the reminder about the summer sail change-out. Time to put away the 135 Genoa and hoist up the 100 which has a slight yankee cut. I haven't tried the 100 with the Catalina mainsail yet. Might be a good combination.

Thanks for the conversation.

regards,
rardi