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Hey Peggie,
Thanks for sharing the story. I agree this could have been prevented with proper maintenance. I have my through hulls "serviced" each year at my annual haulout. However, I've also got tapered plugs on board. I've always assumed that if one of my through hulls failed, I could stop the leak by pounding in a tapered plug, and I'm wondering why these guys didn't do that. Am I kidding myself about this as a jury rig until the through hull could be properly fixed? Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
Thanks for sharing the story. I agree this could have been prevented with proper maintenance. I have my through hulls "serviced" each year at my annual haulout. However, I've also got tapered plugs on board. I've always assumed that if one of my through hulls failed, I could stop the leak by pounding in a tapered plug, and I'm wondering why these guys didn't do that. Am I kidding myself about this as a jury rig until the through hull could be properly fixed? Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
It was a "Fluke", it could have been saved
In the article the captain reported he first noticed the leak at 7:00 p.m. The picture taken by the survivors of the sinking of the "Fluke" was in daylight. I don't know when sunrise is in Bermuda at this time of year, but in the picture it clearly shows it was taken well pass daybreak. This would mean that it might have taken more than 12 hours for the vessel to sink. If he had some wooden plugs like Gary said or other damage control equipment, he might have plugged the leak instead of trying to repair it. In 12 hours if you had a knife you might have craved a plug out of anything wooden you found on your boat or used other material to plug the hole. You can make you own cone shape wooden plugs or you can buy them from Defender, its called "PlugMaster Bung Kit" for $6.95. He should have also had an EPIRB onboard. Having a satellite phone is handy, but I don't know how waterproof they are. If he had to abandon his ship in the storm the captain said was approaching, the story would have been about another sailing ship lost in the Bermuda Triangle in which no distress signal was received. Fair Winds. Clyde
In the article the captain reported he first noticed the leak at 7:00 p.m. The picture taken by the survivors of the sinking of the "Fluke" was in daylight. I don't know when sunrise is in Bermuda at this time of year, but in the picture it clearly shows it was taken well pass daybreak. This would mean that it might have taken more than 12 hours for the vessel to sink. If he had some wooden plugs like Gary said or other damage control equipment, he might have plugged the leak instead of trying to repair it. In 12 hours if you had a knife you might have craved a plug out of anything wooden you found on your boat or used other material to plug the hole. You can make you own cone shape wooden plugs or you can buy them from Defender, its called "PlugMaster Bung Kit" for $6.95. He should have also had an EPIRB onboard. Having a satellite phone is handy, but I don't know how waterproof they are. If he had to abandon his ship in the storm the captain said was approaching, the story would have been about another sailing ship lost in the Bermuda Triangle in which no distress signal was received. Fair Winds. Clyde
Don't know that a plug would have worked
It would have if only the seacock failed...so would a piece of hose long enough to be well above the waterline...but if the entire thru-hull came loose from the hull, I dunno. However, the failed thru-hull wasn't the only issue...they'd altered course to go to Bermuda to repair a mechanical failure. What KIND of mechanical failure wasn't specified...could have been engine...but could have been any one of a dozen other things too. But every time I read a story like this, I can't help remembering: "A little neglect may breed mischief. For want of a nail, the shoe was lost; for want of a shoe the horse was lost; and for want of a horse the rider was lost." (Ben Franklin, Preface to "Poor Richard's Almanac")
It would have if only the seacock failed...so would a piece of hose long enough to be well above the waterline...but if the entire thru-hull came loose from the hull, I dunno. However, the failed thru-hull wasn't the only issue...they'd altered course to go to Bermuda to repair a mechanical failure. What KIND of mechanical failure wasn't specified...could have been engine...but could have been any one of a dozen other things too. But every time I read a story like this, I can't help remembering: "A little neglect may breed mischief. For want of a nail, the shoe was lost; for want of a shoe the horse was lost; and for want of a horse the rider was lost." (Ben Franklin, Preface to "Poor Richard's Almanac")
More than one way to skin a cat
Even if the seacock was inaccessible from the inside, a plug can always be driven in from the outside. I have actually changed out a seacock doing this when taking the boat out of the water was not feasible (not recommended since you can break the seal on the thru hull). Hard to believe however that the seacock was not accessible enough to insert a plug.
Even if the seacock was inaccessible from the inside, a plug can always be driven in from the outside. I have actually changed out a seacock doing this when taking the boat out of the water was not feasible (not recommended since you can break the seal on the thru hull). Hard to believe however that the seacock was not accessible enough to insert a plug.
Hope this wasn't one of your systems Peggie
One thing to remember here is that it is nice to have a wood plug available but, If you have a sizeable say a 4 " exhaust hose attached to that thruhull and the hose has to be repaired /cutaway/removed. Do you have the tools/tape/experience to get to the bottom of the problem and get it repair as it is gushing in your face and possibly under water? If you work on your boat, you get to know it. I am a contractor. I am not a rocket scientist but I build additions and make renovations for the rocket scientists because he has no clue how what is involved in an addition. I highly recommend (especially to offshore shore sailors)to know the boat you are sailing in! Every year my family does what we call a Slocum. It is a week long + getaway. We would use my dad's 32' Allied Seawind and head out from Ft. Lauderdale. Dad sold that boat two Octobers ago. We now Bare Boat our adventures. What I am getting at is that when we did our Slocum this year, as the brokers was going over the functions of the boat I was asking where are all the thru hulls, plugs, tools,pumps,access panels........... In Peggies business, she knows s... happens. I wanted to be ready because I did not maintain that boat but knew that only my 79 year old dad ( Two years ago we hauled him up the mast so he could change out the Windex. An hour job if the Windex is corroded to the mast head)or I would be the ones to make sure we got the boat back. I think it prudent to know your boat and the boat you are on. I have been on boats that the owner did not know very well. That gave me an unconfortable feeling so that I always want to know a boat before we head out. Again the other thing is, are you prepared to dive under water to do this repair? About 6 years ago my dad and I were on our way from Ft. Lauderdale to Miami. It was about 10:30 at night. The wind was from the North and we kept getting 40+ knot gusts. We decided to motor sail with a minimun of jib up to steady the boat some. There had been many storms that week and the seas were coming from every direction. Giving us that Old "PITCH and ROLL" stuff.Our Tach quit and dad went below to see what was up. He called me over to look into the engine compartment only to see water lapping at the cabin floor boards. We didn't know why the bilge pump was not keeping up with the leak so we knew we had to locate it ASAP. At night through bilge water, thru hulls are hard to see. Since it was Dad's boat I was at the helm operating the manual bilge pump (Good to have these to things handy to each other)while dad went on the search. The manual pumping and searching went on for well over an hour. We started making ground on the water in the bilge. We realized that the main automatic bilge pump was not working. There was not flow through the thruhull. Dad tried to operate the manual electric bilge pump. He had replaced two Jabscos a week before. That pump was frozen. We then removed the bilge pump hose from the manual electric pump and connected it to the shower drain pump that was mounted right next to the manual electric pump. That pump work long enough to get ahead of the water then the pump ceased. At that point we finally found the packing gland had bit the dust. We decided that we were no longer in serious danger and that I could manually pump out the bilge as fast as it was coming in. At that point relief hit us both. Dad laid down on the lazerette and slept the next two hours on our way into Miami harbor. Circumstances count. You always need to be ready. Problems don't chose the best times to occur. However, They sure make for good memories later! r.w.landau
One thing to remember here is that it is nice to have a wood plug available but, If you have a sizeable say a 4 " exhaust hose attached to that thruhull and the hose has to be repaired /cutaway/removed. Do you have the tools/tape/experience to get to the bottom of the problem and get it repair as it is gushing in your face and possibly under water? If you work on your boat, you get to know it. I am a contractor. I am not a rocket scientist but I build additions and make renovations for the rocket scientists because he has no clue how what is involved in an addition. I highly recommend (especially to offshore shore sailors)to know the boat you are sailing in! Every year my family does what we call a Slocum. It is a week long + getaway. We would use my dad's 32' Allied Seawind and head out from Ft. Lauderdale. Dad sold that boat two Octobers ago. We now Bare Boat our adventures. What I am getting at is that when we did our Slocum this year, as the brokers was going over the functions of the boat I was asking where are all the thru hulls, plugs, tools,pumps,access panels........... In Peggies business, she knows s... happens. I wanted to be ready because I did not maintain that boat but knew that only my 79 year old dad ( Two years ago we hauled him up the mast so he could change out the Windex. An hour job if the Windex is corroded to the mast head)or I would be the ones to make sure we got the boat back. I think it prudent to know your boat and the boat you are on. I have been on boats that the owner did not know very well. That gave me an unconfortable feeling so that I always want to know a boat before we head out. Again the other thing is, are you prepared to dive under water to do this repair? About 6 years ago my dad and I were on our way from Ft. Lauderdale to Miami. It was about 10:30 at night. The wind was from the North and we kept getting 40+ knot gusts. We decided to motor sail with a minimun of jib up to steady the boat some. There had been many storms that week and the seas were coming from every direction. Giving us that Old "PITCH and ROLL" stuff.Our Tach quit and dad went below to see what was up. He called me over to look into the engine compartment only to see water lapping at the cabin floor boards. We didn't know why the bilge pump was not keeping up with the leak so we knew we had to locate it ASAP. At night through bilge water, thru hulls are hard to see. Since it was Dad's boat I was at the helm operating the manual bilge pump (Good to have these to things handy to each other)while dad went on the search. The manual pumping and searching went on for well over an hour. We started making ground on the water in the bilge. We realized that the main automatic bilge pump was not working. There was not flow through the thruhull. Dad tried to operate the manual electric bilge pump. He had replaced two Jabscos a week before. That pump was frozen. We then removed the bilge pump hose from the manual electric pump and connected it to the shower drain pump that was mounted right next to the manual electric pump. That pump work long enough to get ahead of the water then the pump ceased. At that point we finally found the packing gland had bit the dust. We decided that we were no longer in serious danger and that I could manually pump out the bilge as fast as it was coming in. At that point relief hit us both. Dad laid down on the lazerette and slept the next two hours on our way into Miami harbor. Circumstances count. You always need to be ready. Problems don't chose the best times to occur. However, They sure make for good memories later! r.w.landau
The way home
This is a photo of our way home from that Miami trip. This picture is looking out to the ocean through Stiltsville. Those from the area know where I am talking about. This is looking out to the ocean from Biscayne Bay through a channel that was once lined with homes built on piles on either side of this channel.( this will be no longer due to Political pressure) I have another picture with this same storm with another storm just to the left of it. It was the storm to the left of this that we got to sail through on the way home. AHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........memories. Sorry the picture is sideways. r.w.landau
This is a photo of our way home from that Miami trip. This picture is looking out to the ocean through Stiltsville. Those from the area know where I am talking about. This is looking out to the ocean from Biscayne Bay through a channel that was once lined with homes built on piles on either side of this channel.( this will be no longer due to Political pressure) I have another picture with this same storm with another storm just to the left of it. It was the storm to the left of this that we got to sail through on the way home. AHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........memories. Sorry the picture is sideways. r.w.landau
Attachments
Mark 'em?
I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to paint some sort of markers on or near thru-hulls so that they could be more easily spotted in poor light conditions. Also, what about attaching a wood bung OF THE APPROPRIATE SIZE at or near each thru-hull, and make each member of the crew aware of such. My experience is that if you think hard about what the weakest links are, then take steps to strengthen/maintain them or have a back-up system on hand, you probably won't have a problem with them; but if you ignore them, they'll bite you on the butt.
I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to paint some sort of markers on or near thru-hulls so that they could be more easily spotted in poor light conditions. Also, what about attaching a wood bung OF THE APPROPRIATE SIZE at or near each thru-hull, and make each member of the crew aware of such. My experience is that if you think hard about what the weakest links are, then take steps to strengthen/maintain them or have a back-up system on hand, you probably won't have a problem with them; but if you ignore them, they'll bite you on the butt.
we all know the right things...
but do we always do them??? A lot of second guessing going on here. I'd take a wild guess and say the owner/captain was not a stupid man, he just might have missed one little thing, who in here hasn't? Just playing devils advocate for arguments sake.
but do we always do them??? A lot of second guessing going on here. I'd take a wild guess and say the owner/captain was not a stupid man, he just might have missed one little thing, who in here hasn't? Just playing devils advocate for arguments sake.
Observations from two from blue water cruisers:
Both wondered how the water could have risen so high before they even noticed it. One said: "I think this is a case poor preparation and watch keeping. When you are near or offshore, part of the watchkeeping is periodic (hourly) inspection tour of the boat including shining a flashlight into the bilge and logging it all. This guy should also have checked hose integrity and clamping at all of the thru-hulls before he left." Another also wondered how the boat could have taken on so much water before anyone noticed...how they could have failed to notice a change for the worse in the way the boat handled as the bilge filled up with water: "I have about 12 inches (he was referring to his bilge depth) in my bilge. I filled her up once, she handled like a pig, I noticed it right away." My own thoughts: As for missing only "one little thing"...when you're headed offshore, thru-hulls are NOT "little" things. And, they'd already experienced some kind of mechanical failure...that's at least TWO "little" things he apparently missed.
Both wondered how the water could have risen so high before they even noticed it. One said: "I think this is a case poor preparation and watch keeping. When you are near or offshore, part of the watchkeeping is periodic (hourly) inspection tour of the boat including shining a flashlight into the bilge and logging it all. This guy should also have checked hose integrity and clamping at all of the thru-hulls before he left." Another also wondered how the boat could have taken on so much water before anyone noticed...how they could have failed to notice a change for the worse in the way the boat handled as the bilge filled up with water: "I have about 12 inches (he was referring to his bilge depth) in my bilge. I filled her up once, she handled like a pig, I noticed it right away." My own thoughts: As for missing only "one little thing"...when you're headed offshore, thru-hulls are NOT "little" things. And, they'd already experienced some kind of mechanical failure...that's at least TWO "little" things he apparently missed.
Bad combos
As has often been said before, disasters frequently occur when several errors or accidents occur in combination. Walter and I (crew), and Steve (skipper), had been enjoying the 5 mile motorsail down to the regatta on a Saturday morning when Steve decided to go below for some juice. 2 seconds later his head popped up the companionway and he said with some urgency, "we're taking on water, the sole is several inches deep!" We immediately did a 180 to head back to his place, as he has a lift. Two of us were bailing, and the bilge pump was running. Eventually we gained enough so the sole was not awash. While bailing we looked for the source of the incoming water, and found there was a slight trickle coming in from the shaft packing. However, much more alarming was the hole in the bilge pump hose that had come loose from a tie down and was rubbed through by the prop shaft. Our eventual verdict was that with the three of us in the cockpit of the 28 footer, the stern sat low enough for the thru-hull to be below the waterline and allow the lake to begin infiltrating the boat. When the bilge pump did come on, it just cycled most of what it pumped back through the hole in the hose and into the boat. WHAT I LEARNED: 1. Treat the bilge pump, its wiring, and its hose as if your boat's life depends on them; 2. So THAT'S why they make and sell bilge level alarms; 3. Not a bad idea to check below once in a while.
As has often been said before, disasters frequently occur when several errors or accidents occur in combination. Walter and I (crew), and Steve (skipper), had been enjoying the 5 mile motorsail down to the regatta on a Saturday morning when Steve decided to go below for some juice. 2 seconds later his head popped up the companionway and he said with some urgency, "we're taking on water, the sole is several inches deep!" We immediately did a 180 to head back to his place, as he has a lift. Two of us were bailing, and the bilge pump was running. Eventually we gained enough so the sole was not awash. While bailing we looked for the source of the incoming water, and found there was a slight trickle coming in from the shaft packing. However, much more alarming was the hole in the bilge pump hose that had come loose from a tie down and was rubbed through by the prop shaft. Our eventual verdict was that with the three of us in the cockpit of the 28 footer, the stern sat low enough for the thru-hull to be below the waterline and allow the lake to begin infiltrating the boat. When the bilge pump did come on, it just cycled most of what it pumped back through the hole in the hose and into the boat. WHAT I LEARNED: 1. Treat the bilge pump, its wiring, and its hose as if your boat's life depends on them; 2. So THAT'S why they make and sell bilge level alarms; 3. Not a bad idea to check below once in a while.
Damn I think I know that boat!
That looks like one of the boats on a mooring at Brewers Wickford Cove. Soory to hear about their trouble. Glad no one was hurt. In the end we all prepare and do the best we can and look at that picture and repeat after me, there by the grace of God go I. Russell S/V Allie Kat
That looks like one of the boats on a mooring at Brewers Wickford Cove. Soory to hear about their trouble. Glad no one was hurt. In the end we all prepare and do the best we can and look at that picture and repeat after me, there by the grace of God go I. Russell S/V Allie Kat
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