Why hasn't anyone made a robot to clean our boat bottoms?

[DakineRobotics]

Hey everyone! My name is Lyle and I've been sailing for 5 years now. Two years on a Catalina 22 and 3 years on a Catalina 30, all in the SF Bay Area. Like most of you I'm sure, I've always been frustrated with the bio-fouling maintenance owning a boat that is kept in the water requires. Having a service take care of it for me is too expensive to justify, and doing it myself is exhausting. After years of dealing with this headache, I'm exploring whether there might be a better solution. I have a graduate degree in robotics and mechatronics system and worked in robotics integration for 10 years. After doing some research, it looks like there are quite a few startup companies that have made some robotic hull cleaning devices but none have mass produced them and using robotics to clean hulls has not caught on in popularity from what I have seen.

Before I go any further with this idea I'd love to hear from fellow boaters about your experiences and pain points with hull cleaning. What's your current approach? Would you be interested in a pool cleaner/Roomba like device for cleaning your boat hull? I'm most curious about the different perspectives across boat types, regions, and maintenance philosophies. Drop a comment below to let me know what you think or take the short survey (Link) I created in an effort to gather feedback from boat owners.

Fair winds! -Lyle

 

[Foswick]

Hi, and welcome.

I've spent some brain time on this idea and believe there is a decent market opportunity. (Though we don't think it is in the recreational space.) We've looked at this and came to the conclusion that the engineering challenges were too great, so moved onto lower hanging fruit. It sounds like you came to a different conclusion. I hope you've solved some issues that we gave up on.

To answer your questions:

We haul out once a year and clean and optionally bottom paint at that time. In our area, that is adequate. We get a thin layer of slime if the boat sits for a few months, which we sometimes clean with a brush on an extension, as far as we can reach. Simply moving the boat on a regular basis seems to keep the bottom clean, provided we clean annually and keep up on bottom paint.

Every once in a while, when anchored out, one of us takes a dive to give the prop a bit of a scrub, as that is really the only surface that gives us any problems with growth.

If we needed an interim cleaning, we would just hire a diver for a couple hundred bucks. But, we never do.

In our area, many people have those curved poles - most of them made out of PVC pipe - and are pretty adept at using them. Takes about 10-15 minutes, I think, maybe once a month at most.

If we lived in an area where growth was more aggressive, I would consider paying for a routine service that uses such a solution, but I would never own it myself - pretty much at any cost. And, I would pay around $100/mo for that service.

 

[sailme88]

They have and they are available.. Look very similar to a pool bot...google it !

 

[FastOlson]

There may be other reasons why this service/device has not happened.
About 20 years ago we had a hull scrubbing machine appear at a marina near where we moor. It was kind of like a couple of bristle rollers that a power boat could slowly be pulled over. While a bit of a Rube Goldberg contraption, it worked. The season was limited to about 6 months, and rumor was that the proprietor gave up after getting some warnings about releasing a cloud of sloughing bottom paint into the environment.
I note that all boat yards have stringent regs about collecting any bottom paint sanding dust and preventing it from flowing/leaching back into waterways or the ground, so that "legality" might be the major hurdle.
That said, I betcha we've all pondered something like this at one time or another.....

 

[shemandr]

Anyone who has cleaned a bottom in the water learns pretty fast that they need to use suction cups to keep brush strokes from pushing the person away from the hull. I'm not trained in design or mechanical systems but I think maintaining the robot's attachment to the hull while it is moving on the hull surface would be the major challenge.
Based on sailme88's post I did a search and found many versions of a mechanical bottom cleaning "Robots." Many are directed to shipping. An interesting yacht application is the Remora Solo. It is demonstrated by SBO poster Fast Bottoms, who has a hull cleaning business. It's remarkable as demonstrated. I think the spinning brush creates the suction needed to keep the brush against the bottom. It also has adjustable buoyancy which would be useful. A diver is still needed to direct it. So it isn't what we think of as a robot. Nevertheless, if I were still cleaning my sailboat bottom I'd be looking to buy one.

 

[dLj]

Honestly I can't see any reason why I would want to spend the money on a robotic bottom cleaner. Everytime my boat is hauled it is mandatory that the bottom be pressure washed. During the sailing season, sometimes I need to clean the water line region. The best way to keep a clean bottom is to sail a lot. Keep the boat moving in the water.

But thinking about it - I'd like to see a design that can clean the bottom, AND clean my bow thruster, prop shaft and propellor. If it can't do that, I'm not sure how useful it would be to me even if I were to entertain getting such a device. Plus, it would have to be pretty inexpensive given what it currently costs me to keep my bottom clean..

dj

 

[ShawnL]

Our seasons are very short in the far northern midwest, so it wouldn't pay for us. I did see an episode of Sam Holmes Sailing on YouTube where he brought a 27 foot full-keel boat through a bottom cleaning station. It was in Europe, but I cannot remember where or when. As others have said, it had a bunch of roller brushes like a car wash. I remember being impressed they could do a full-keel sailboat.

 

[Art12050]

Agree with ShawnL, our season here in the Northeast is equally as short. We usually haul in late September. As mentioned, when boats are hauled they’re power washed almost immediately. EPA Regulations requiring capturing the wash down water to keep it out of waterways.
If your boat stays in the water year round, I can understand the issue. I’d probably have it hauled, power washed, touch up or re-bottom paint if needed then relaunch.

 

[patbratton]

I have seen large carp in Lake Lanier, Georgia, cleaning the bottom of sailboats. I have not been able to figure out how to train them to do a complete job.

 

[DakineRobotics]

Gentlemen,

To start, thank you all for the feedback and thoughtful responses! This community seems to be much more welcoming than some of the other forums I have posted in asking for feedback/people's experiences with biofouling.

Some general thoughts from reading everyone's comments:
My boating experience to date has been very infrequent usage, year round boating (no need for sessional hall outs), and very protected harbors nestled inside the SF Bay. For all these reasons combined it sounds like i have a higher accumulation rate then most of you guys and no convenient time to take care of it outside the water. Perhaps a product like this would only be practical for people who operate in regions where their vessel remains in the water year round and therefore they don't have the opportunity of a sessional haul out to do a pressure washing.

@Foswick
I'm curious to know who "We" are if you feel comfortable sharing more about your background? I am coming at this from a fairly exclusively engineering perspective and I am pretty confident I can come up with a hardware/software solution that cleans hulls well. Commercial boat cleaning would be a completely different market, and would present a completely different set of hardware requirements than the personal/recreational market that i originally wanted to serve. I have also seen those PVC curved poles at my marina but have never used them. I will inquire further about them now, thank you for the idea!

@FastOlson
I thought about a carwash for your boat style of cleaning setup as well but never met anyone who has seen one operational in person! Thanks for the note on clouds of antifouling paint causing attention and being a biohazard. I guess that is not a problem for infrequent hand cleaning by divers but if you have a robot doing cleanings more frequently this could definitely become a problem.

@shemandr
I have heard great things about the Remora Solo as well regarding the suction from their impeller brush head and the rugged waterproof design. According to their website, it looks like they have suspending manufacturing of this device. It does not appear that they are closing their business though, maybe they are getting ready to release a new model... Impellers integrated with the brushes to solve the adhesion or normal force problem is a pretty cool and simplistic solution. If I ever make it to the prototyping phase this is definitely a design I will be trying!

@dLj
I had thought about cleaning propellers, prop shafts, and replacing anodes, but had not thought about bow thrusters. Thanks for that input. Cleaning these items would definite be much more technically challenging than cleaning the relatively smooth surface of the hull.

@ShawnL
I watch SailingHolmes as well, what a good guy! I had not seen the episode where he pulled through a hull cleaning station. I'll see if i can find that episode, I would love to hear his impressions and get his perspective as well!

 

[Foswick]

I note that all boat yards have stringent regs about collecting any bottom paint sanding dust and preventing it from flowing/leaching back into waterways or the ground, so that "legality" might be the major hurdle.

I will say, though we gave up on this idea, the only path that really got any traction was that marinas would actually own the device and include the service with moorage for boats that elected not to use anti-fouling paint at all. So, it would be an alternative to bottom paint, thus avoiding that issue altogether. Marinas that were not located near haulout facilities demonstrated some interest in that idea. (Hard to tell if that interest would translate into sales. I have found that people are not good predictors of what they would or wouldn't spend money on until it becomes immediately available.)

But, like DJ said, you really need to do a good job with bow thrusters and prop assemblies or people just can't justify spending any money on it, since a dockside brush can get everthing else and diving services are really pretty reasonable if you need more attention than that. And, that's really the engineering challenge.

I would say to ignore voices that say they wouldn't pay for it. If you have a solution that actually works well, people will pay for it. The trick is just finding out who. This forum is a pretty DIY crowd, so not your primary market. Honestly, the easy market is businesses who already clean bottoms as a service. If this saves them time and is more cost-effective in the long run, it is a no-brainer. Let the market adoption trickle out of that demographic.

Case and point: A while back, I floated the idea of a lighter weight hose for pumpout stations on this forum. The response was generally that there was no need and/or it was not feasible. I spent a few days calling around and found a manufacturer that made two products that each had some of the necessary properties. Long story short, within 2-3 weeks I had commitments from the hose manufacturer to combine them into a single product and had closed a deal with a manufacturer of pumpouts who jumped at the idea. There's always a market for a solution that works. It's just tricky to find it, sometimes.

 

[Michael Davis]

If you had a robot that you could use every couple of weeks you wouldn’t need bottom paint. That would solve one problem.
If the robot cost were a couple of boat bucks it wouldn’t take many seasons paying for bottom paint to make it a paying concern.

 

[sailme88]

Anyone who has cleaned a bottom in the water learns pretty fast that they need to use suction cups to keep brush strokes from pushing the person away from the hull. I'm not trained in design or mechanical systems but I think maintaining the robot's attachment to the hull while it is moving on the hull surface would be the major challenge.
Based on sailme88's post I did a search and found many versions of a mechanical bottom cleaning "Robots." Many are directed to shipping. An interesting yacht application is the Remora Solo. It is demonstrated by SBO poster Fast Bottoms, who has a hull cleaning business. It's remarkable as demonstrated. I think the spinning brush creates the suction needed to keep the brush against the bottom. It also has adjustable buoyancy which would be useful. A diver is still needed to direct it. So it isn't what we think of as a robot. Nevertheless, if I were still cleaning my sailboat bottom I'd be looking to buy one.

the bot has a top mounted thruster that keeps the unit pressed against the hull. Same process as a pool wall cleaning bot.

 

[sailme88]

I keep my hull clean by SAILING the boat regularly. Several of our club's launch Stewards are divers and will clean hulls. Not the best solution for a soft ablative paint. Several years ago when circumstances made it difficult to sail regularly, my hull started to develop a beard. Had that cleaned. it came back faster than the original beard took to form...