Why flush with fresh water instead of salt water?

[Rich Stidger]

I've searched the archives and have probably missed where it was described why it is an advantage to use fresh water instead of salt water for flushing.

Can you explain?

Also I am considering a conversion or replacement to an electric head this Spring. I think there is a option to buy the entire electric toilet except for the bowl and seat for a significant savings. What is the recommended unit for this? I currently have a Jabsco- the most common unit that is 13 years old.

 

[JoeWhite]

Rich - I bought my 1999 Catalina 36 last May. It smelled like a head when entering down below. I read many posts of the source of the odor. It was suggested that when you use seawater to flush you are introducing bacteria that is present in seawater. This bacteria remains in the head hoses and causes this unpleasant lingering odor. To prevent this flush with fresh water from the internal water tank. Specially when you are ready to leave the boat. This will make sure that there is only fresh water without any bacteria that remains in the hose. I was not surprised that after about 30 days there was no longer any odor.

 

[Ron20324]

Though you need not do every flush with fresh water, a major source of the nasty odor is when dirty raw water is drawn in and critters remain in the rim of the bowl and rot. Just flushing the bowl with fresh water (say, from the faucet) will not delete these- you have to put clean water into the intake hose. Peggy and others suggest tee-ing the intake hose off the sink drain so you can close the sink's thru-hull, fill the sink with ship's water, then wet-bowl pump to work that water through the rim. Jut doing this at the end of a cruise should suffice. You could also pump cleaners and anti-freeze through the rim this way.

I just finished the drain-teeing modification, and though I have to put the stopper in the sink to pump in raw water, the system will work as planned to flush the commode- rim and all.

 

[Guest]

Fresh water flushing

Hi Rich, the two previous posters give the reasons why and I think Peggie will concur. Our 1991 P42 came with dual electric Jabsco sea water flushers. They still work every time and never clog after years of regular use. After sitting for a period of time the first flush will have a rotten egg smell caused from rotting marine life left in the hose between the through hull and toilet. It quickly dissipates and there is no lingering odor.

If fresh water capacity is not an issue then flushing with it makes sense to some. Otherwise, I'm very happy with our arrangement. Peggie will likely steer you to a different brand of toilet. It seems that earlier models of Jabsco toilets were better made than those of recent vintage. All I can say is ours work great.

Terry Cox

 

[Rich Stidger]

So it sounds like I don't need to use fresh water for flushing if I either don't have a odor issue with decaying stuff in the seawater. Agree? We do have some nasty odor on the first flush after a period of non-use, but the odor dissipates and it is not persistent after the first couple of flushes.

I carry 110 gallons of fresh water, but I must travel 5 miles from my mooring to get decent quality water, so using fresh water needlessly is not something that I want to do.

So I am still looking for a compelling reason to use fresh water for flushing. I don't mean to be a hard-sell, but I'd rather not use drinking and wash water for flushing when I have an unlimited amount of sea water.

 

[Guest]

Fresh water flushing

Hi Rich, it is sort of like a bow thruster for your boat. Probably no compelling reason, in my mind at least. Our boat holds 150 gallons of fresh water, yet no compelling reason here. Perhaps others will disagree and express their voices in contrast.

Terry Cox

 

[Guest]

Fresh water flushing

Hi Rich, as a footnote, most of the archived posts that I've read over the years tend to obsess over odors resulting from a variety of sources and a desire to rid their boat of them. My position is that boats sitting in sea water year-around and closed up during the winter will accumulate sources of smell. Ours has an odor, but not a stink. I make sure the shower sump and bilge is emptied after each cruise, which is a major cause of stink if left to stew for a period of time. I also use Odorloss in the holding tank after pump out, again another source of stink.

All in all the boat smells pretty good, but when I first enter the boat after being sealed up for awhile, it does have an odor. Diffusers along with low watt air driers in each cabin help to give the boat a pleasant smell even when closed up. Fresh water flushing might make a difference, but I doubt it. Too many other sources to draw from.

Terry Cox

 

[Rich Stidger]

Terry,

Thanks for your insight. Right now I'm thinking that a fresh water flush is probably a needless complication and just another draw on our water. Maybe other posters or Peggie will point out something else that I have missed.

 

[Guest]

Fresh water flushing

Hi Rich, you are welcome. It's beer thirty here so maybe we'll see input from others while I commiserate with Henry.

Terry

 

[Ron20324]

If you were thinking of tapping your flushing plumbing into a water tank that also serves your faucets and sinks, that is a no-no:naughty: Never bridge the two systems.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Rich, Ron said it well.

Just use the LAST flush of the day to clear out the seawater in the INTAKE line to the head. It's so simple. Peggie contributed to the thread on our C34 message board.

Try this, if you haven't seen it yet: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5755.0.html

It runs a few pages, and there are pictures on page 3.

If you're going electric, it may be a different story depending on what you buy.

 

[ShaktisBoy]

I have been lurking on this and other boards for quite a while now and when it comes to a marine head I used to feel your pain. My wife and I bought our Hunter 30T 2 1/2 years ago and the first project was to fix the smelly leaky and cumbersome head. After days of talking to other owners and a few manufactures we decided on a Airhead composting toilet and IMHO it is the best thing I have ever done on a boat. There is no smell at all. If your not living aboard fulltime you may not have to empty the compost more than once a season. It is legal everywhere and it freed up all the space from the old holding tank after removal. Now there is one less through hull and all of the smelly hoses have been removed from the bilge. The toilet intake throughhull now serves as a watermaker and airconditioner water inlet. To give you an idea how well the composter works we emptied and recharged the compost tank in early November 2010 then went on a 3 week Bahamas cruise starting Dec 1st. We returned to West Palm Beach right before Christmas. There were 3 of us aboard for the first 4 days and my wife and I for the remaining 17 days. At the end of the trip the compost holding tank was a little more than 1/2 full. We locked up the boat and returned to our other life without emptying the tank. I returned to the boat in mid January and checked the composting tank. To my supprise the tank that had been half full had composted down to maybe 1/16th full. Did I mention there is no smell? I honestly think a cruising couple could go 45 - 60 days without having to empty the compost. If you let the boat sit a week or 2 it is very easy to change out without having to deal with fresh waste. The only downside is you must empty the urine holding tank which is seperate about every 3 days. I understand some users have plumbed a small drain line and pump to an existing sink drain to keep from having to remove and dump urine manually. Still considering all of the problems associated with other waste systems this is bar none the best and simplest to use and maintain system I have ever had on a boat.

Fair Winds

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You DO know that it's illegal to dump urine overboard?

Marine sanitation laws prohibit the discharge ("includes, but is not limited to, any spilling, leaking, pouring, pumping, emitting, emptying, or dumping") of "human body wastes and the wastes from toilets and other receptacles intended to receive or retain body waste"...and that includes urine. Never mind the argument that urine is sterile etc etc etc...it's just as illegal to dump urine as it is holding tank or flush a toilet directly overboard inside the "3 mile limit." No point in arguing it with me either...I didn't write the law, I'm just the messenger.

So if you get caught.... :naughty:

Btw...urine IS sterile, but a jugful of it has a very high BOD. And it's BOD, not bacteria, that causes algae blooms and "dead zones" etc. So those of you who are disposing of urine overboard aren't nearly as "green" as you'd like to believe you are.

You're gonna keep doing it anyway...but at least now you'll be making an informed choice.

 

[LuzSD]

Peggy, just for clarity, is it legal for my fellow racers to stand at the stern taking care of business? Besides being so rude and crass, (right as they go by us, and usually when us girls are facing them) isn't that the same as putting it somewhere and then dumping it over?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

"Direct deposit" from you into the water is legal...

...whether from the lee rail or while taking a swim...although you could run afoul of indecent exposure laws.

You just can't put it into a container and pour the container overboard.

It almost makes sense...'cuz the feds knew they wouldn't be able to establish standards and/or inspect people's plumbing, or prove that a swimmer was doing more than just swimming...so any MARINE sanitation laws that didn't include an intermediate step between the person and the waters wouldn't be enforceable, so they didn't address it.

So there is no law that allows "direct deposit"...there just aren't any that don't, therefore making it not illegal to do it.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Ahhh, those dangnabbit double negatives. Dontcha just luv 'em.

 

[Bill Roosa]

So does a pipe count as a "container"?
and if a pipe does not count can I make the argument that a head is just the fancy end on my pipe that goes directly overboard?

 

[Bill Roosa]

Never mind. I see that recepticals and toilets are covered as "things you put stuff in" aka containers

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

So does a pipe count as a "container"?
and if a pipe does not count can I make the argument that a head is just the fancy end on my pipe that goes directly overboard?

I'll buy any argument you want to make, but I'm not gonna be the water cop standing in your cockpit writing the ticket that'll cost you BIG bucks if HE doesn't buy it! :dance:

 

[Joe]

I don't disagree that you aren't mistaken.