on my Harken roller furler for the headsail? I am confused... as they appear to be the same length/diameter. Or did I just luck out when I bent the sails on?
Why 2 luff tracks...
- Thread starter Rich (P303)
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Mostly a racing thing to be able ...
to change sails underway. New one goes up while old one is flying ... then old one comes down. Vic "Seven"
to change sails underway. New one goes up while old one is flying ... then old one comes down. Vic "Seven"
But racers don't use furlers!
I thought it was for twin head sails for doing that wing-n-wing thing. Nice for tradewind sailing
I thought it was for twin head sails for doing that wing-n-wing thing. Nice for tradewind sailing
common misconception .... When racing with ...
a harken you can bypass the drum to use standard class size sails. ala deck sweepers. Vic "Seven"
a harken you can bypass the drum to use standard class size sails. ala deck sweepers. Vic "Seven"
Thanks Vic
No Racing for me. If I can leave the mooring and get back without calling Sea-Tow... I have had a sucessful day!
No Racing for me. If I can leave the mooring and get back without calling Sea-Tow... I have had a sucessful day!
twin luff tracks
...in the foils are a common feature in all quality brand furlers such as harken, profurl, schaeffer, etc. Typically, a cruising foil will be more circular in shape to allow a tighter reef, while the racing foil will be more elliptical in shape to enhance aerodynamics. Both, however, will be equipped with twin grooves. Racers will be able to change headsails by hoisting the new sail before dropping the old. Cruisers will be able to rig twin headsails, winged out on each side, for comfortable downwind sailing. The drums on most of the high quality furling units can be removed fairly easily so the foil can be used by itself like a dedicated race boat. Just for clarification, the "foil" is the alloy extrusion part of the furling unit, the "drum" turns the foil.
...in the foils are a common feature in all quality brand furlers such as harken, profurl, schaeffer, etc. Typically, a cruising foil will be more circular in shape to allow a tighter reef, while the racing foil will be more elliptical in shape to enhance aerodynamics. Both, however, will be equipped with twin grooves. Racers will be able to change headsails by hoisting the new sail before dropping the old. Cruisers will be able to rig twin headsails, winged out on each side, for comfortable downwind sailing. The drums on most of the high quality furling units can be removed fairly easily so the foil can be used by itself like a dedicated race boat. Just for clarification, the "foil" is the alloy extrusion part of the furling unit, the "drum" turns the foil.
Vic, Bill, Joe
Now that I have your interest... is there a preferred groove to use on the foil? My foil rotates counter clokwise when it comes in (I think).
Now that I have your interest... is there a preferred groove to use on the foil? My foil rotates counter clokwise when it comes in (I think).
"Tradewinds" rigging
I don't have a spinaker on my boat, but when I cruise (I'm not a racer) on a run or broadreach for an extended period of time, I can raise my 135 (in addition to my regular 150) and pole out the windward head sail. IT seams better if the 135 is on the windward side if you drop the main. If you keep the main up put the 150 on the windward side because the main will funnel the wind into it and around and out over the 135. This seems contrary to the Venturi principle. When I try to draw force diagrams, it looks to me like the main would force the air over the 135 better because it would split the air flow more evenly to get more lift. Maybe the 135 is too far out. Next time I'll try poling out the 100 (sometimes Bigger ISN'T Better). Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? This gives me a REALLY BIG head sail without having to buy a spinaker. Running with two head sails like this is called a "Tradewinds rig" or "Tradewinds sail plan". Fair winds, Jim
I don't have a spinaker on my boat, but when I cruise (I'm not a racer) on a run or broadreach for an extended period of time, I can raise my 135 (in addition to my regular 150) and pole out the windward head sail. IT seams better if the 135 is on the windward side if you drop the main. If you keep the main up put the 150 on the windward side because the main will funnel the wind into it and around and out over the 135. This seems contrary to the Venturi principle. When I try to draw force diagrams, it looks to me like the main would force the air over the 135 better because it would split the air flow more evenly to get more lift. Maybe the 135 is too far out. Next time I'll try poling out the 100 (sometimes Bigger ISN'T Better). Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? This gives me a REALLY BIG head sail without having to buy a spinaker. Running with two head sails like this is called a "Tradewinds rig" or "Tradewinds sail plan". Fair winds, Jim
higgs
only the apparent sail direction with respect to the wind is important when raising it (a not very clear way of expressing it I know)
only the apparent sail direction with respect to the wind is important when raising it (a not very clear way of expressing it I know)
The leeward grove is best ;-)
The Heisenberg uncertainty principal leads all us quantum physical sailors to conclude that if you have the luft on the leeward groove of the foil it will cause fewer waves in the state vector of the force component. Also, when you furl the sail you should account for the torque vector which acts at right angles to the actual control lines. These will tend to force the sail either up or down depending on which direction you furl in. In the northern hemisphere the preferred grove is the left one for CCW furling drums. Course that means that on a right hand tack you would have to drop the sail, reinstall it on the left hand track and then furl it. Seriously I don't think there is a preferred grove. ;-)
The Heisenberg uncertainty principal leads all us quantum physical sailors to conclude that if you have the luft on the leeward groove of the foil it will cause fewer waves in the state vector of the force component. Also, when you furl the sail you should account for the torque vector which acts at right angles to the actual control lines. These will tend to force the sail either up or down depending on which direction you furl in. In the northern hemisphere the preferred grove is the left one for CCW furling drums. Course that means that on a right hand tack you would have to drop the sail, reinstall it on the left hand track and then furl it. Seriously I don't think there is a preferred grove. ;-)
Twin Headsails
I use a Tough Luff with two luff grooves, one just forward of the other. Which groove you use if racing is dependant on the halyard in use and how you anticipate making the headsail change; in my opinion it being easier to hoist inside of the sail that is drawing. Cruising, it dosen't matter at all. However, I've found that when flying two headsails, for a down wind run, it's more efficient and easier not to have both in the headfoil. I prefer to fly the 155 wing and wing opposite the main and tack the smaller headsail on an adjustable 3'-4' pendant so that when it's hoisted there is an open slot effect between the two headsails and I can adjust the slot with down haul on the pendant or at the halyard. It is an interesting sail set-up that you don't see many people using.
I use a Tough Luff with two luff grooves, one just forward of the other. Which groove you use if racing is dependant on the halyard in use and how you anticipate making the headsail change; in my opinion it being easier to hoist inside of the sail that is drawing. Cruising, it dosen't matter at all. However, I've found that when flying two headsails, for a down wind run, it's more efficient and easier not to have both in the headfoil. I prefer to fly the 155 wing and wing opposite the main and tack the smaller headsail on an adjustable 3'-4' pendant so that when it's hoisted there is an open slot effect between the two headsails and I can adjust the slot with down haul on the pendant or at the halyard. It is an interesting sail set-up that you don't see many people using.
track choice...
Raymond, if you were racing and not furling, I think halyard choice would determine the appropriate track. If you are rigging one sail, and leaving it on the furler, then the rotation direction when furling up the sail might be a more appropriate determination. Sorry I don't have a direct answer for you.... but honestly I don't think it is that critical... why don't you experiment with both and then make your decision.
Raymond, if you were racing and not furling, I think halyard choice would determine the appropriate track. If you are rigging one sail, and leaving it on the furler, then the rotation direction when furling up the sail might be a more appropriate determination. Sorry I don't have a direct answer for you.... but honestly I don't think it is that critical... why don't you experiment with both and then make your decision.
Thanks for the posts all
It is only 1 headsail for me. Maybe in a couple of years when I have things figured out... I'll take the larger headsail out of the bag. Almost time to pull the stick. Have a good winter.
It is only 1 headsail for me. Maybe in a couple of years when I have things figured out... I'll take the larger headsail out of the bag. Almost time to pull the stick. Have a good winter.
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