Who says production boat can't cross the ocean
- Thread starter Jim
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It's not just about the boat.
So these guys made it on a raft, made of plastic bottles and other junk. Does that mean that anyone can make it on the same style craft. And there have been big, heavy, very well built boats sunk in storms. Does that mean that no boat is big enough, or strong enough. It depends at least as much on the way the boat is taken care of and who is skippering it. There are a couple of guys on this board that I have been offshore with. Russell, sails a Catalina 30 very well, and takes care of it extremely well. I would feel safe crossing the gulf with him on his boat, and not worry about it. I have crossed the gulf with TonyB, and I would do it again and feel safe, if he owned a Catalina 27, or a Hunter 27. Others I have been around I wouldn't want to sail out of sight of land with, if they had a 40+ foot Island Packet or Pacific Seacraft. I have crossed the gulf in boats from 22' to 39'. This means that besides all the items mentioned above I also have some luck from time to time. Which cannot be totally ignored.
So these guys made it on a raft, made of plastic bottles and other junk. Does that mean that anyone can make it on the same style craft. And there have been big, heavy, very well built boats sunk in storms. Does that mean that no boat is big enough, or strong enough. It depends at least as much on the way the boat is taken care of and who is skippering it. There are a couple of guys on this board that I have been offshore with. Russell, sails a Catalina 30 very well, and takes care of it extremely well. I would feel safe crossing the gulf with him on his boat, and not worry about it. I have crossed the gulf with TonyB, and I would do it again and feel safe, if he owned a Catalina 27, or a Hunter 27. Others I have been around I wouldn't want to sail out of sight of land with, if they had a 40+ foot Island Packet or Pacific Seacraft. I have crossed the gulf in boats from 22' to 39'. This means that besides all the items mentioned above I also have some luck from time to time. Which cannot be totally ignored.
No Hunters or Catalinas
I looked at the entry list and did not see any Hunters or Catalina but a lot of Beneteaus. The Most of the production boats seem to be high end boats more expensive than most people can afford. Also the boats tended to be 40-50+ feet in length. I was surprised by the absence of Catalina and Hunter built boats. Halberg-Rassy was well represented. I as a Pearson owner was disappointed that there was only one Pearson. But Pearson has been out of production a long time. But what complete dumbfounds me is that there was not a single Macgregor 25 entry....Possibly the most popular boat ever built!!!!
I looked at the entry list and did not see any Hunters or Catalina but a lot of Beneteaus. The Most of the production boats seem to be high end boats more expensive than most people can afford. Also the boats tended to be 40-50+ feet in length. I was surprised by the absence of Catalina and Hunter built boats. Halberg-Rassy was well represented. I as a Pearson owner was disappointed that there was only one Pearson. But Pearson has been out of production a long time. But what complete dumbfounds me is that there was not a single Macgregor 25 entry....Possibly the most popular boat ever built!!!!
Aren't most ARC participants European?
Might that not explain the relative absence of American production boats like Hunter and Catalina?
Peter
H23 "Raven"
Might that not explain the relative absence of American production boats like Hunter and Catalina?
Peter
H23 "Raven"
Sure you can cross oceans in a production boat ......
its the risk that you take as most 'coastal' production boats are simply not as strong (about 1/3 less strong) as a 'bluewater' design. Notwithstanding 'skipper expertise' many boats have simply broken apart and sunk because they were too weak for the 'conditions'; the historical records are full of successful ocean crossings but rarely does one have the opportunity to investigate one that 'disappeared and was presumed lost' as that 'evidence' is gone.
Design categories (inshore, coastal, bluewater, etc.) have evolved from what has actually worked and and what has sunk - from insurance records and records of actual failures. This had led the designers evaluations of such failure to come to a fairly common 'scantling' for the target venue on which the boat is to perform.
The engineering designs generally are usually:
Inshore design - twice as strong as the average conditions found in inshore water.
Coastal design (almost all production boats fall into this category) - three times as strong as the average conditions found in coastal sailing
Offshore/passagemaker - four (or more) times as strong as the average conditions found.
Sure you can cross oceans in a BeneHuntaLina .... Its just that you have 1/3 less chance of surviving or 1/3 greater chance that the boat will break apart than if you went across in a "bluewater' boat according to the historical/insurance (scantling) records, etc. You roll the dice and take your chances .... entirely your choice.
Just look at any chart for just about any area of the world .... I'll bet the farm that those who once sailed (and maybe survived) all those thousands upon thousands of indicated sunken WRECKS would have something to say about how safe or how strong in construction a boat should be.
its the risk that you take as most 'coastal' production boats are simply not as strong (about 1/3 less strong) as a 'bluewater' design. Notwithstanding 'skipper expertise' many boats have simply broken apart and sunk because they were too weak for the 'conditions'; the historical records are full of successful ocean crossings but rarely does one have the opportunity to investigate one that 'disappeared and was presumed lost' as that 'evidence' is gone.
Design categories (inshore, coastal, bluewater, etc.) have evolved from what has actually worked and and what has sunk - from insurance records and records of actual failures. This had led the designers evaluations of such failure to come to a fairly common 'scantling' for the target venue on which the boat is to perform.
The engineering designs generally are usually:
Inshore design - twice as strong as the average conditions found in inshore water.
Coastal design (almost all production boats fall into this category) - three times as strong as the average conditions found in coastal sailing
Offshore/passagemaker - four (or more) times as strong as the average conditions found.
Sure you can cross oceans in a BeneHuntaLina .... Its just that you have 1/3 less chance of surviving or 1/3 greater chance that the boat will break apart than if you went across in a "bluewater' boat according to the historical/insurance (scantling) records, etc. You roll the dice and take your chances .... entirely your choice.
Just look at any chart for just about any area of the world .... I'll bet the farm that those who once sailed (and maybe survived) all those thousands upon thousands of indicated sunken WRECKS would have something to say about how safe or how strong in construction a boat should be.
Considering the types of failures that I have read
about both for off shore cruising and for coastal sailing, rudder failure seems to be the most frequent (no records at hand just my impressions) next would be roller furlers, jib or main, dismasting happens but not very often,(once is enough) rarely fin keels and bulb keels leaving the boat. I don't recall ever reading of a hull failure but busted windows is often mentioned and hatches torn loose are an unpleasant situation.
I would want my rudder supported by a skeg. My mast would carry oversize standing rigging and my head sail would be a hank on with reef points.
about both for off shore cruising and for coastal sailing, rudder failure seems to be the most frequent (no records at hand just my impressions) next would be roller furlers, jib or main, dismasting happens but not very often,(once is enough) rarely fin keels and bulb keels leaving the boat. I don't recall ever reading of a hull failure but busted windows is often mentioned and hatches torn loose are an unpleasant situation.
I would want my rudder supported by a skeg. My mast would carry oversize standing rigging and my head sail would be a hank on with reef points.
"in the same area at the time"
Sometimes - I think we live in wierdly, wonderful times............... From your article....
"Without a backup plan, the two used a satellite phone to get in touch with Roz Savage, who was crossing the Pacific solo in a rowboat and happened to be in the same area at the time.
Savage, who was heading from San Francisco to Hawaii, was in dire need of water after both her potable water makers broke. When the three met up, Savage got onboard the raft, Paschal speared a mahimahi and the three dined together. Before parting, the men gave Savage a water maker and she gave them some of her extra food."
It's like something Douglas Adams would write....
--jerry
Sometimes - I think we live in wierdly, wonderful times............... From your article....
"Without a backup plan, the two used a satellite phone to get in touch with Roz Savage, who was crossing the Pacific solo in a rowboat and happened to be in the same area at the time.
Savage, who was heading from San Francisco to Hawaii, was in dire need of water after both her potable water makers broke. When the three met up, Savage got onboard the raft, Paschal speared a mahimahi and the three dined together. Before parting, the men gave Savage a water maker and she gave them some of her extra food."
It's like something Douglas Adams would write....
--jerry
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