White vinegar for head/holding tank odor?

[Leprecaun]

I know this is an age old topic, and I have searched and read several posts here on the topic.

My questions are:
- if I am going to try the white vinegar treatment do I add it into the bowl, or into the pump out end of the tank?
- how much should I use? Can't seem to find the specs for the size of the holding tank on this Newport 28 sloop.
- does white vinegar really work?

I have someone replacing hoses and such, but won't be done for several weeks.

Thanks!

 

[Stu Jackson]

The white vinegar is to avoid buildup on the hoses. You put some in the bowl. It has NOTHING to do with odors in the holding tank.

 

[thinwater]

The white vinegar is to avoid buildup on the hoses. You put some in the bowl. It has NOTHING to do with odors in the holding tank.

What he said.

The first rule of chemical treatments is to understand, chemically, what the treatment will do. If you don't understand the core purpose, then the results will be random, which includes worse.

If the hoses are being replaced, there is nothing to do. Pumping the tank out would be a courtesy, followed by rinsing and treatment with Oderlos or equivalent. But if the hoses are all top entry, it doesn't really matter what is in the tank. The worker will flush the waste lines himself, if he's bright. The vent he will plug with a rag, if needed.

 

[Leprecaun]

What he said.

The first rule of chemical treatments is to understand, chemically, what the treatment will do. If you don't understand the core purpose, then the results will be random, which includes worse.

If the hoses are being replaced, there is nothing to do. Pumping the tank out would be a courtesy, followed by rinsing and treatment with Oderlos or equivalent. But if the hoses are all top entry, it doesn't really matter what is in the tank. The worker will flush the waste lines himself, if he's bright. The vent he will plug with a rag, if needed.

Thanks for the clarification. Yes this is about existing odors. We have not used the head since purchasing (several months ago) the 1988 sloop, and when purchased it was pumped out, filled with water, and pumped again.

Since we need to wait about a month for hose replacement, would you recommend treating with Odorlos in the meantime? The Mrs is quite tired of the odor, and rightfully so.

Thanks!

 

[thinwater]

^^ Yes, that would be a good idea. Just flush it through.

The thing about holding tank treatments, is that there are some that work well by supporting aerobic bacterial activity, and there are those that try to sterilize and perfume; avoid the latter class.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Here's what you might do. Using the deck fitting, flush in fresh water and pump it out using the pump-out station vacuum several times to clear the holding tank of the foul air and any residue in there now; make sure the water coming out is clear (so you need a pump fitting with a "window"). Next, pump clean water through the macerator and discharge hose so they're clean. You'll likely have to go outside the 3 mi limit to do that. Empty 1/2 of a 2 oz package of SeaLand Granulated Deodorant (Part Number: 379626002) if allowed where you are (i.e., contains para-formaldehyde) into the tank with a gallon of fresh water. Leave it in there for a week then pump it out at a station and flush a few times. That should eliminate all bacteria. Replace the hoses. Now, EVERY time you use the holding tank, pump it out clean w/several flushes of fresh water b/f putting the boat away. After that, try your "green" alternatives.

 

[Leprecaun]

^^ Yes, that would be a good idea. Just flush it through.

The thing about holding tank treatments, is that there are some that work well by supporting aerobic bacterial activity, and there are those that try to sterilize and perfume; avoid the latter class.

So I have read that before using Odorlos the tank MUST be clean, otherwise stuff in the tank (other chems and stuff) could kill the good stuff in Odorlos.

How would you instruct to "clean" the tank prior to the use of Odorlos?

(I truely appreciate your comments)

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You'll find instructions for using tank products, including preparation for use, on the product container/packaging...usually if only involves rinsing out the tank--and you'll find instructions for doing that if you search this forum for "rinsing holding tank."

Something that you don't make clear in your questions: are you experiencing odor INSIDE the boat? Only out the tank vent when the toilet is flushed? Both?

The tank, unless it's leaking, is rarely if ever the source of odor INSIDE the boat because odor from inside the tank has only place place to go--out the tank vent. Increasing the ventilation to tank along with a good tank product that works WITH nature instead of lethal chemicals are the solution to odor out the vent.

Sources of odor iINSIDE the boat are permeated hoses, wet dirty bilges and /or sumps, residual odors from a previous spill...there is no tank product that will cure odor inside the boat. New hoses (but only IF the existing hoses stink) and serious cleaning are the only real cures...you cannot eliminate any odor until you remove the source.

However it is possible to have both problems--odor inside AND odor out the vent. There is no single cure for both, they have to be treated as separate problems.

White vinegar doesn't cure anything, but a cupful--no more--flushed ALL the way through the system once a week will PREVENT sea water mineral buildup.

You'll find a lot of information if you search the archives of the forum...and you might also find the information in the link in my signature useful.

 

[Leprecaun]

You'll find instructions for using tank products, including preparation for use, on the product container/packaging...usually if only involves rinsing out the tank--and you'll find instructions for doing that if you search this forum for "rinsing holding tank."

Something that you don't make clear in your questions: are you experiencing odor INSIDE the boat? Only out the tank vent when the toilet is flushed? Both?

The tank, unless it's leaking, is rarely if ever the source of odor INSIDE the boat because odor from inside the tank has only place place to go--out the tank vent. Increasing the ventilation to tank along with a good tank product that works WITH nature instead of lethal chemicals are the solution to odor out the vent.

Sources of odor iINSIDE the boat are permeated hoses, wet dirty bilges and /or sumps, residual odors from a previous spill...there is no tank product that will cure odor inside the boat. New hoses (but only IF the existing hoses stink) and serious cleaning are the only real cures...you cannot eliminate any odor until you remove the source.

However it is possible to have both problems--odor inside AND odor out the vent. There is no single cure for both, they have to be treated as separate problems.

White vinegar doesn't cure anything, but a cupful--no more--flushed ALL the way through the system once a week will PREVENT sea water mineral buildup.

You'll find a lot of information if you search the archives of the forum...and you might also find the information in the link in my signature useful.

Hi Peggy,

The odor is inside the boat.
I have searched this forum and read several comments of yours on this subject.
I had a guy come to assess the problem, and the first thing he did was check the vent hose. It was definitely clogged at the exit leading to the outside of the boat by the bow. We got that clear, I think. He suggested replacing the hoses coming out of the head and leading to the tank, and I am thinking that the vent hose should be replaced as well.
We have cleaned the inside of the boat, and the bilge, but I am failry certain it is in the head system. I rode through an RV park the other day, and I could smell the same smell.

Am I missing something here? I appreciate your comments!!

 

[Leprecaun]

Hi Peggy,

So this morning I went to the boat and went aboard (after being closed up all night) and she did not smell that bad. Still some odor, but not as strong as yesterday. Then I opened all the hatches. In about 5 to 10 minutes the smell got worse! Very strange.

Any thoughts?

 

[centerline]

The odor is inside the boat.
I have searched this forum and read several comments of yours on this subject.
I had a guy come to assess the problem, and the first thing he did was check the vent hose. It was definitely clogged at the exit leading to the outside of the boat by the bow. We got that clear, I think. He suggested replacing the hoses coming out of the head and leading to the tank, and I am thinking that the vent hose should be replaced as well.
We have cleaned the inside of the boat, and the bilge, but I am failry certain it is in the head system. I rode through an RV park the other day, and I could smell the same smell.

Am I missing something here? I appreciate your comments!!

I had the same problem with the vent being plugged.... this resulted in a tank seam bursting.
As long as we had a nice smelling chemical or oder suppressent in the tank it seemed like there was no problem... except when the tank got full and the effluent spilled out in to the tank compartment...
I got tired of putting up with the smell decided to change the permeated hoses.... and that is when I found the vent line to be plugged....
but even as much as the old hoses did need replacing and it now had a working vent, that didn't cure to problem.

So I decided to pull the plastic tank.... when I filled it with water in my driveway it had a seam failure in 2 spots, one of which was 8in long....
I am sure pumping the toilet into it without any place for the air in the tank to go is what worked the seams enough to cause them the come apart.

I had the entire tank rewelded for 50 dollars...after reinstalling I have no odors inside the boat.

My only regret is not having a second vent port put in to the tank.... I think a second vent would do wonders for the proper ventilation of the tank.

And one more thing... the thru hull vent fitting should have the screen removed from it....as any small amount of effluent that makes it way there from either over filling the tank, or when heeling over, if it is carrying even the slightest amount of solids (paper or other floaty stuff), it WILL plug the screen.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The other end of the vent line (the connection to the tank) is also likely to be blocked, so be sure to clear it too. There's a very simple test for permeated hoses...you should be able to find it in a dozen places if you search this forum. If it turns out your hoses are NOT permeated, no sense in replacing them...and that also applies the vent line.

I'm guessing they are, and I suspect the reason the odor increased was because someone flushed the toilet. Material passing through hoses puts pressure on the walls that "pushes" permeated odor out. Or, it could just have been odor from the vent--or even another boat--making it's way into the boat through an open hatch.

When hunting down the sources of odors, always remember that ANY odor is always strongest at its source. So open drawers and lockers...stick you head down bilge hatches BEFORE opening up and airing out the boat.

 

[patemey]

I've had odors inside the boat even after new hoses and checking the vent was clear.
It turned out to be the fittings screwed into the top of the tank were done with little or no sealant (or possibly degraded over time).
So when flushing, the tank air was also escaping thru the threads of the fitting and into the cabin.

 

[Leprecaun]

Gee, that is something I wouldn't have thought of, thanks.

As an update to our progress:
- Pumped out tank twice with fresh water
- Added Odorlos to the bowl and flushed it through
- Put some Odorlos in a spray bottle and sprayed all hoses and compartments. (this was recommended by Trisha at First Mate at Camachee Marina, St. Aug.)
- The next morning the odor WAS GONE!

As planned, we will replace the hoses, rebuild the head (actually thinking of replacing it. It is probably the original on this 1988), check the vent line again, and any tank hardware.

BTW - I bought the Head Mistress's book and read it from cover to cover. Incredibly informative. A must read for those that want to be in the know.

So I have a question...at this point, while we are waiting for materials, should I do the white vinegar thing?

Thanks all for helping us with this!!!!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

So I have a question...at this point, while we are waiting for materials, should I do the white vinegar thing?

What do you mean by "do the white vinegar thing?" You can't accomplish anything with just one dose...As discussed in post #8 above, white vinegar has only one function: regular doses of it as part of ongoing preventive maintenance prevents sea water mineral buildup in the hoses--and btw, it needs to be flushed ALL the way through the system, do NOT leave any sitting in the bowl! So unless you expect to keep your existing hoses long enough for mineral buildup to become an issue, what do you think would be the point of "doing the white vinegar thing?"

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I've had odors inside the boat even after new hoses and checking the vent was clear.
It turned out to be the fittings screwed into the top of the tank were done with little or no sealant (or possibly degraded over time).
So when flushing, the tank air was also escaping thru the threads of the fitting and into the cabin.

If the tank and threaded fittings were plastic, the fittings are self sealing, so no sealant should have been needed unless they're the wrong size (for instance, someone replaced metric with the closest equivalent available here) or or not properly tightened (too tight will crack the "collar" on the female female fitting, not tight enough will also leak). Threaded caps used by some tank level indicators need a replacement o-ring every few years, but again...no sealant.

Otoh, if your tank is metal, sealant may be needed. Unfortunately metal waste tanks have a very short lifespan before they star to leak at a seam or fitting (and gradually turn into a colander)...so you'll want to keep a very close eye on a metal waste tank...although your nose will prob'ly let you know before you can see anything.