Whisker pole with baby stay

[Syversens]

Hi All, I'm looking at whisker/spinnaker pole alternatives again as I'm thinking of taking my boat off the spinnaker class and going with non flying sails only. I have asked this before but not really found a good setup or heard perhaps all experiences out there.My boat has a babystay thats permanent and its a 361 99, I'm thinking I'll either get just an eye on the mast or the full track, depending on the pole. I'll also need to arrange some sort of topping lift. this would mostly be used for light wind sailing but perhaps also for running with the gennaker.Anyone have this setup on their mast and use a topping lift ? Where is it attached and how do you get around the baby stay ? Is there also anyone who have the topping lift lines outside the mast as I'm pretty sure mine doesnt have the exit for it but can I just use a block with a line down to the deck and perhaps to a winch if necessary ?any thoughts appreciatedthanksGaute

 

[agaliha]

Whisker Pole storage on mast

Gaute,I also have a B361 and have rigged my mast to hold my Forespar whisker pole on the front edge of the mast behind the baby stay. I run the "car" as far down as it will go (about a foot off of the deck) and I have a second car with a rubber u-shaped pole holder at the top of the track (about 10 feet off of the deck). Then I clip the pole to the car and push the top of the pole into the rubber holder. I got this holder car at Defender. I rigged a pole lift (5/16 line) through the factory fittings on the mast. There is a sheave box about two feet below the masthead and a mast exit on the starboard side about 6 feet off of the deck. I used to attach my pole lift to the top of the whisker pole as a safety when it was stored on the mast, but after many months of use, I have decided that is unnecessary. The baby stay protects the pole from sails, etc. during tacks and other maneuvers. Finally, a benefit from the annoying baby stay!My pole is adjustable from about 13 feet to about 20 feet. The large tube is 3" diameter and the inner tube is 2 1/2". It has double buttons that you depress to control its length. At its minimum extension is strong enough to use as a spinnaker pole. At its full extension is wings my 140 genoa out beautifully.Hope this helps. Let me know if you need a photo and I'll shoot one.

 

[Syversens]

great information

Many thanks, glad to hear someone has a setup that I was thinking of. How do you gybe and what type of pole do you have, end to end or dip pole ?Also do you have a downhaul somewhere on the boat or just using the regular sheet to control the height, I have seen (and read) you can do that by moving a block on the toerail....I'm only doing this for the few times we'r racing and most of the time we'r cruising so budget and keeping it tidy and easy are priorities for me racing setup /cheersGaute

 

[agaliha]

How I use my pole

I have two spinnakers. One is Asymetrical. The other is symetrical.I use the symetrical when the wind is mostly aft. If the wind is light (and sure not to increase) I don't use a downhaul on the pole. I just move the snatch block for the guy forward on the toerail so that it pulls down on the pole. (A method I used when sailing dinghies). When the wind is blowing hard(8 plus) I rig a downhaul from the end of the pole through a block at the bow pulpit and back to the cockpit.I use the Asymetical when the wind is mostly abeam. Once, I extended my whisker pole to "wing out" the Asym when the wind shifted aft and it wouldn't fly steadily in the lee of the mainsail.When gybing the symetrical spinnaker, I have to use the dip pole method because I attach the downhaul to the outboard end of the pole. (I don't have any bridles).Hope this makes sense after my evening cocktail!Sounds like we are attempting the same thing out of our 361s. I love mine. It is the best compromise of a comfortable cruiser and great performer that I can imagine. Happy spinnaker sailing,Agaliha

 

[Syversens]

Pole under the baby stay ?

Agaliha, sounds like a nice setup and sort of like I imagined. now just to ask, you dip the pole between the baby stay and the mast (shortening it first) or do you take it around the babystay ? Do you have a radar mount and does it intefer with this process ?Also I read somewhere that whisker poles should not be used as spinnaker poles as they do not handle the same compressing pressure as a true spinnaker pole. A different site said that it was reversed and whisker poles had more compression than spinnakers... either way I was thinking that would be a nice solution for atleast light/med wind and the occational race.If you have any pictures of the mast track and the pulpit block i'd be curios. I'm also going to look for the topping lift as I do remember seing that exit on the starboard side with a small string coming out, perhaps to feed thru a thicker line...really appreciate the input !Gaute

 

[agaliha]

gybing

Gaute,When I gybe, I take the inboard end of the pole loose and move it around the baby stay and then reattach it to the car. Even with the pole shortened there isn't enough room to swing it through (inside the baby stay). I do not have a radar mount. It's not that hard to do.My mast track is 1 1/4" x 8' screwed (drilled and tapped) into the mast every 4".I know, I have also heard that I shouldn't be using a whisker pole as a spinnaker pole. When this one is shortened to spinnaker pole length there is a lot of overlap between the two tubes. It is very "beefy." I've been doing this a while with no problems. I sail on an inland lake where the winds are usually light. When the wind picks up I'm not interested in putting up a symetrical chute anyway (and neither is my crew)!

 

[Syversens]

Sounds easy enough

thanks agaliha, I got some good news yesterday as my neighbor is willing to donate his old pole to me, this isnt a whisker pole but a spinnaker but heavy duty at 3.5 inches and proper lenght. Now I'll look at the topping lift before I take it over but I think it might be in place, but how did you hook up the downhaul ? I think I might need that and there isnt an obvious place for it. The boat I raced on before mine had three blocks upfront, two on deck and one on the downhaul, not sure why it didnt just have one on deck that svivel... what is your setup ?getting the pole is great as $250 in shipping is a killer... now I can test if I like it (or can do it).thanksGaute

 

[agaliha]

Foreguy block

My anchor guide has a hole in it. Using a snap hook (caribiner type) I hook a simple block to this hole. I run a 3/8 inch line from the pole end, through this block and back to the cockpit. Having a swiveling block mounted on the deck would be better, but it would always be in the way.I use this same block and attachment point for the "tack line" on my asymetrical.Agaliha

 

[Syversens]

forguy behind the furler ?

great thanks agaliha, I got one more question then (for now ) it sounds like the block will be behing the furling for the jib then, do you unhook it and take it around or just lay it close to deck ? It sounds like it could rub or get caught somewhere on the jib.I think I'm close to getting this all together and with a pole to start with I can test it out, you have been really helpful agaliha and really appreciate all commentsthanksGaute

 

[agaliha]

foreguy

I'm not sure I really understand the question. I think you mean during gybing, does the line interfere with the jib. The jib is furled, so the line would only rub against it (depending on the angle of trim). Like I say, a swiveling block mounted on the deck just aft of the furling drum would be better, but it would be a nuisance most of the time. I'm a part-time spinnaker guy.By the way, I use my pole lift for lots of other duties on the boat. When I'm dressing ship with code flags I hoist them with this line so that the flags fly just inside the furled genoa...looks really nice. I also use this line to uphaul my Christmas lights during the annual "Lighted boat parade." It also holds up my hatch tent that I rig during rainy weather when I want some ventilation through the forward hatch.

 

[Syversens]

Great information agaliha

I had to fix my waterheater today and changed the pressure relif valve, that fixed a annoying problem of dumping hot water in the bilge when on electric heater. While I was there I checked the mast and I do have a topping lift and even the block at the top of the mast. there is even a string thru the bottom out the top so I'd just have to get up there and rope a line thru and its set up.I think I found a system that might work for now but I'd like to get the downhaul away from the furler but that will be when the system works. for now I'm getting the pole, a track thats as long as the pole and some sort of hook on the bottom of the track so it can be stored there. I'll move the pole around the stay like you do and thats it. the topping lift will not interfer with the radar as its really close to the head of the mast.thanks for all information, I think I have a parts list and as budget allows it will be set up.. thanks !Gaute

 

[Syversens]

one more question

I'm putting together my shopping list for budget approval and I think I got all the parts... however I'm not sure how long to make the mast track. if its over 8 feet it needs to go by truck and thats expensive, the shop also said I could use two 6 feet but I'm thinking where they join at some point will make the car stop.So how long is yours and how high did you put it ? I want to store the pole on the mast and I think there is room under the baby stay but I'm not putting up 14 feet of pole... I was thinking of putting the mast end high on the mast and clicking the sheet end on a ring or something on the bottom. that way I can put the topping on at the end and not the top.the lenght is first and then I guess how high I can put a 8 foot track.thanks!Gaute

 

[agaliha]

Mast track

Gaute,First of all, don't be worried about a "joint" in the track. When you screw the tracks to the mast, any car will slide smoothly over the joint. I'd have to go measure my track, but I think it is 6 feet. It starts about a foot off of the deck and I can't reach the top without a little help. You will never need your spinnaker car 7 feet off of the deck. However, you want your "u-shaped rubber pole carrier car" as far up as possible ot keep the pole from falling. By the way the Defender part number for this car is 600351 (for a 3.5" pole).I'll try to take a photo for you and post it here. No promises, I've got too much holiday stuff to make a promise. I really like the system of storing my whisker pole behind the baby stay, however. No deck clutter and it is easy to use.Happy Holidays,Agaliha