Whisker pole length?

[Roger Long]

Is there a rule of thumb for proper whisker pole length? I want the lightest pole possible and performance is secondary to ease of stowage and handling so I'll go with the shortest I can get away with. I'll only be using it with the full jib.

The pole has moved up on the wish list because of the SeaView radar mount. After I got it all installed, I realized that the radome is quite far forward compared to any other boats I've seen wiith 6 - 8 inches between the dome and the mast. I checked and it is the mount they supply for the Garmin 18 dome. No problem on the wind but, in those conditions where it's hard to keep the jib winged out, the jib will go across to the lee side and hook behind the dome so that it is almost impossible to get it winged again without hauling on the furling line to make a half dozen wraps. It didn't seem worth the fuss of dealing with a whisker pole before but it does now. It would also be nice to help get the dinghy on to the foredeck with the spinnaker halyard without banging the topsides.

 

[Todd Smith]

Whisker pole

Roger,

I have mostly used a spinnaker pole as the whisker pole. The length was equal to the "J" measurement. If you are going to store it on deck or lashed to the lifelines, length is not really a problem. On my friend's Tartan 28 the spin pole is no problem to handle by one person. The trick is to just lay it across the life lines on the side opposite the jib. Then it's easy to hook on the sail.

Todd

 

[tommays]

The adjustable length ones really work best , when i use my spinnaker pole its is to short to really get the job done

 

[kloudie1]

Roger, the old rule of thumb is that the whisker pole should be about as long as the foot of the sail that you are whiskering.. Which mostly means a variable length and probably line controlled.. I use my spinnaker pole (same as J dimension) and that is just fine with the 110 .. but would be too short for a bigger sail.. Good Luck !

 

[higgs]

I believe the J for your rig is 13 ft. That was it on my Irwin 32 which is the same boat. I would get a pole that extended to more than that. I used to use my spinnaker pole and a bit longer would have been nice, but the 13 foot pole worked reasonable well. The big drawback to a spinnaker pole is the weight.

A spinnaker pole would be a lot cheaper than a telescoping pole, but those are the best.
I built a spinnaker pole for my 32 for around $300.

 

[Ray T]

I used a spinnaker pole for my 27, it worked well for my 155 and my working jib. I didn't use a spinnaker but the pole was easily handled by one person. The pole was equal to J and I used it for racing and cruising. I liked a spinnaker pole because it was stronger and had less to go wrong. I used a topping lift and a downhaul with it, this stabilized the sail eliminating pumping and gave uninterrupted power. This significantly increased overall speed. The pole was mounted to the deck and was not in the way. I was going to my sailmaker and found a pole lying in their parking lot that was due to go to Bacon's. I paid $100 dollars and was very happy.

 

[Ross]

I made one from a piece of bamboo and rigged the mast end with a snotter like a sprit. It wasn't very convenient but it served the purpose.

 

[RichH]

Whiskerpoles should often be selected much longer than the J dimension. Allows better control of your larger LP foresails. Typical length of a WP can be 20% longer than "J" and still be quite effective ... with large LP sails. Of importance in the selection of a WP also is 'how small' the length is ... so that you can also use it as a 'reaching strut' or 'quasi-clubfoot' for reaching downwind.

To me WP are too fragile, so I use a Spinn Pole which when I would need to 'shorten' the poles length: simply raise the mast end 'up the its mast track', etc.
With an Asymmetric, when tacked to a LONGER pole instead of tacked to somewhere on the stem, ***the further you can get the tack of the Asymm out in front of the boat, the less windshadow from the main and the deeper you can sail to DDW***, etc. etc. etc.

If weight is a concern, and If you have the $$$, consider a carbon pole, and especially if you dont 'dip pole' but do an 'end for end' (small boat or dinghy style) during a gybe. You 'can' build your own carbon tube.

The J dimension 'rule' is from racing rules - and so sets a limit of how far one can 'set' the Spinn from the boats centerline ... and to keep all the boats 'even' by the rules, and to prevent monsterously long poles. The J rule is a holdover from the "Blooper, Spinn Staysail, Tall-boy, etc. days" when everyone mistakenly thought that DDW was somehow fast.

Pole length when not 'racing' ... longer is BETTER. 20% seems to be the 'customary'.
see URL for 'recommendations by 'boat': http://www.forespar.com/onlineCatalog/2009/Sailboat/sailing_whiskerPoleSizingGuide2009.shtml

 

[higgs]

J + 20% is around 16 feet on the End. 32. A telesoping pole in this range is over a grand.

 

[Don12364]

Practical Considerations

I have experimented with poles as long as the hypotenuse of the triangle between the 'J' measurement and the LPG of the genoa. This way one can make use of the full projected area of the sail. With this setup one can also broad reach with the airflow across the jib completely in the reverse direction and the sail mostly ahead of the forestay. It makes for tremendous extra power and we did it on our Olympic Star boat all the time.
However on larger boats, when it comes time to gybe, this pole is just too unwieldy and so an extending pole is to be preferred.
On my present H376 I built a pole from uPVC tube (light and cheap!) which will dip under the forestay without need to disconnect it from either the mast or the sail; both sheets need to go into the pole end fitting. It holds the sail out more than adequately and, by slacking off the sheet, I can also roll it up on the furler without going on the foredeck. It needs neither uphaul nor downhaul and the angle of the sheet prevents the pole from skying. It bends horribly though, so aluminium would have been better.

Another trick I use for short downwind legs is to simply put a carabiner round both windward sheet and shroud and then slightly oversheet the sail. This is just enough to stop the sail collapsing and so I don't need to put the pole on at all.

 

[Roger Long]

Practical considerations.

I like the title of your response and it's gets at the heart of my whisker pole requirements.

I'm not concerned with maximizing sail area or boat speed. After discovering the problem with my sail hanging up on the radar, I rolled it up and was surprised how little speed I lost even in moderate winds. As a singel/shorthanded cruiser, I doubt I would mess with a pole in heavier winds.

It's faster to tack downwind so I would generally do that in open water but cruising in Maine you often find yourself running in restricted waters with the wind dead aft. Another purpose of a pole would be to be able to dodge around pots without the jib collapsing across to leeward. This wasn't a big problem until I installed the radar but now is a major pain.

Thanks Rich for the Forespar link. They even have a model selected for my boat. However, I don't see a grand's worth of utility in the line control model they recommend. I'm going to look at a lighter, twist lock pole, half the price for something I might only use 2 - 3 times a year seems like a reasonable compromise.

If the difference in boat speed is as little as I have observed with the jib winged out poleless and rolled up, I can't imagine that shorter than normal pole will make a huge difference.

 

[jibes138]

Experiential observations

I have a line control whisker pole, of course I bought it years ago when it was about half the current price. The whisker pole is in compression when in use, not tension as you might think. I had a twist lock pole on a smaller boat and the twist lock mechanism is not very reliable. Think of those twist lock boat hooks and would you be comfortable putting a large compression load on it? I love using the whisker pole. The difference in downwind speed and ability to sail downwind closer to 0 degrees makes a big difference. I've never tried it but with twin tracks on the roller furler you should be able to fly twin headsails and drop the main. Kind of a quasi spinnaker. If you want to get a shorter pole, consider rolling up the jib or genoa part way or switching to a smaller headsail. Having the pole will still make a huge difference in performance. They do take some wrestling around with so it is definitely a task that you want a crew on board. High risk of getting hurt or falling overboard so make sure you are connected to the boat with a harness for foredeck work like this. A pole long enough to be worth the trouble will be way too long for convenient storage so an adjustable length is a feature you'll want. It takes some work putting it up and getting the lines adjusted right so I only use it for fairly long stretches of downwind, usually 10 miles or more. I've also used it in a few races in the long island area and it made a big difference.
See if you can find a used one of the right size, maybe from a wreck or derelict vessel.

 

[Stu Jackson]

More practical considerations

I'm not concerned with maximizing sail area or boat speed. After discovering the problem with my sail hanging up on the radar, I rolled it up and was surprised how little speed I lost even in moderate winds. As a singel/shorthanded cruiser, I doubt I would mess with a pole in heavier winds....but cruising in Maine you often find yourself running in restricted waters with the wind dead aft. ...wasn't a big problem until I installed the radar but now is a major pain...difference in boat speed is as little as I have observed with the jib winged out poleless and rolled up, I can't imagine that shorter than normal pole will make a huge difference.

Roger,

If we pick apart your earlier recent post as I have above, if speed isn't your object, you may want to consider what we have done.

Since I broke my leg in January, we have been out sailing only a few times, those obviously most recently. We have a loooong restricted channel back to our berth, over three miles. Plus we have the great venue of San Francisco Bay. But getting the mainsail cover off was a pain, even when I was more nimble.

In keeping with your "boat speed is not an issue" theme, we've been sailing with just the jib. While I've had that conversation with people who think it's bad for the boat, which is simply nonsense, that is not the purpose of this post. A friend and I had two glorious sails across the Slot last week on just the jib, and we'd do it regularly even before my leg issue.

In lieu of dealing with a pole, why not just drop your main? We found there's a lot more flexibility with the jib once the main is doused. It works upwind and downwind.

I used to have a pole, it is languishing on my lower deck at home with the pistons seized. My PB Blaster is somewhere...

 

[Roger Long]

In lieu of dealing with a pole, why not just drop your main?

Way easier to just pull on the jib furling line than set up lazy jacks, drop, furl, and raise again when the course changes. The free jib wasn't a big problem until the radar installation. I would look for a mount closer to the mast than the SeaView I were doing it again. I've probably go less of a dead spot right astern but the downwind jib hang up is a major pain.

[quote}
I used to have a pole, it is languishing on my lower deck at home with the pistons seized. My PB Blaster is somewhere...[/quote]

Want to sell it?

 

[RichH]

"something I might only use 2 - 3 times a year " ....

Then why not forget a pole entirely .... and consider to gybe initially deeper onto almost a beam reach (with 'very' slacked sheets) so that the genoa has more windloading to accomplish putting more pressure aloft to be sure that the leech clears your radome? Very slacked (slippery) sheets as its the sheets that put the pressure on the leech.

This is the technique I use on my racing boat that has a huge overlap of a full battened mainsail vs. the backstay - in light winds I gybe temporarily/momentarily to a deeper angle for more windloading aloft to get the sail's leech across the backstay.

 

[Roger Long]

Then why not forget a pole entirely .... and consider ....

All perfectly sound techniques which I employ. Try coming to Maine though and mixiing them with the kind of courses dictated by the incredible maze of lobster pots. Even then, handling the jib on a run without a pole wasn't a big deal until the radar. With a conventional mount, it probably still wouldn't be. I wish I'd realized that the SeaView was so far forward of the mast before I bought and installed it. I've had the foot of the sail across on the right side of the boat and the leech still held firmly until I took a haul on the furling line.

I may well construct and adaptor plate next winter to move the radome back to a more conventional position.

 

[tsmwebb]

Wondering if a cheap solution might be to make an arc to guide the sail around the dome. On the horrid side of things a bit of PVC tube with a line through it lasted to you uppers shrouds and running around the front of the dome might work. I've got a SS tube that does much the same thing in a more "yachtie" way and price.

--Tom.