In 10 knot winds the other day I got whipped on pretty good by a Catalina 22 using (I think) only his 130% gen. I've sailed 25 years. He was alone, I had one small passenger. Why the whipping?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
M
Mark Kissel
H
Harvey Small
Details please
Which point of sail were you on? Running, reaching or close hauled? Was your board up or down? Outboard down? A 240 should be sailing smartly in 10 knots, so there must be something else.
Which point of sail were you on? Running, reaching or close hauled? Was your board up or down? Outboard down? A 240 should be sailing smartly in 10 knots, so there must be something else.
T
Tom
More details
Not much more to detail. In fact, he deliberately cut accross my bow at one point for attention (this was weird) but later flat out passed me (big) with both on a close reach. His 22 seems quite new but so is my h240. Both motors out of the water. My board was down as it should on this tack. Maybe he had a 150 up. Maybe, unlike me, he trailers his and, with no bottom paint, keeps a smoother hull.
Not much more to detail. In fact, he deliberately cut accross my bow at one point for attention (this was weird) but later flat out passed me (big) with both on a close reach. His 22 seems quite new but so is my h240. Both motors out of the water. My board was down as it should on this tack. Maybe he had a 150 up. Maybe, unlike me, he trailers his and, with no bottom paint, keeps a smoother hull.
J
Jay Hill
Speaking of the trailer...
...did you remember to take your boat off of your trailer? I've heard that can slow things down a bit. (No offense intended, of course, just kidding. HOW dare a C22 pass a H240, no?)
...did you remember to take your boat off of your trailer? I've heard that can slow things down a bit. (No offense intended, of course, just kidding. HOW dare a C22 pass a H240, no?)
B
Bob Schmit
It's all relative...
The specs for both boats are similar but it may have been a day when the C22 was in a groove and wanted everyone to know it, no matter how rude he was. I have caught up and passed a Catalina30 tall rig when my h26 was sailing in a groove. And I have had the plesure of passing a Baba when the winds were under 10kts as the slugs usually need much more air to get moving. Any of the16' scows could probably do circles around our boats as they have no ballast to drag around and can get up and plain. So it is all relative, what matters is that you enjoy your boat and what it does for you.
The specs for both boats are similar but it may have been a day when the C22 was in a groove and wanted everyone to know it, no matter how rude he was. I have caught up and passed a Catalina30 tall rig when my h26 was sailing in a groove. And I have had the plesure of passing a Baba when the winds were under 10kts as the slugs usually need much more air to get moving. Any of the16' scows could probably do circles around our boats as they have no ballast to drag around and can get up and plain. So it is all relative, what matters is that you enjoy your boat and what it does for you.
G
Greg Stebbins
Speed or comfort. Pick one
Tom, The 240 on our lake is a bit slower than my old 23 in some conditions. I think it may have to do with all the freeboard and deck clutter on the 240. Do you have a bim.?
Tom, The 240 on our lake is a bit slower than my old 23 in some conditions. I think it may have to do with all the freeboard and deck clutter on the 240. Do you have a bim.?
D
Dave Condon
Speed
As I tell everyone, the boat is one factor regarding speed. Knowledge of the sailing area, knowledge of the boat, condition of the boat, experience of the skipper and crew are other factores to be concerned with. A friend of mine who owns an O'Day 25 wins allot of races with his boat and it is considered to be a slow boat. He has all other factors bgoing for him. I would need more details. I took the first 240 to Solomons and raced it against other Hunters some of which were flying spinnakers. I surprised many as I left quite a few behind. Crazy Dave condon
As I tell everyone, the boat is one factor regarding speed. Knowledge of the sailing area, knowledge of the boat, condition of the boat, experience of the skipper and crew are other factores to be concerned with. A friend of mine who owns an O'Day 25 wins allot of races with his boat and it is considered to be a slow boat. He has all other factors bgoing for him. I would need more details. I took the first 240 to Solomons and raced it against other Hunters some of which were flying spinnakers. I surprised many as I left quite a few behind. Crazy Dave condon
K
Keith Smoot
STOP GETTING WHIPPED
If you want to stop gettin whipped on the water, get the water out of your boat! Get yourself a good wing-keel then let them try! Keith Smoot, caretender of Gwaihir, a fine 1987,wing-keeled H-23.
If you want to stop gettin whipped on the water, get the water out of your boat! Get yourself a good wing-keel then let them try! Keith Smoot, caretender of Gwaihir, a fine 1987,wing-keeled H-23.
J
John
Bottom Roughness
The roughness of the bottom is very important. If you leave yours in the water it most likely has something like Pettit Trinidad or equal - not exactly smooth. If he had bare gel coat this will give him a substantial advantage in less drag. If you both had centerboards, if his had the centerboard trunk sealed off and yours wasn't this would be a factor also. With regard to crossing tacks in front of you, I don't consider this necessarily rude so long as it's not a dangerous situation. Just because one has been sailing for a lot of years doesn't necessarily mean they are fast sailors. Have you been in races and how well have you done? Sailing a boat isn't like, say, driving a car (or power boat) where all one has to do is put the foot on the gas to go faster, it's much more complicated than that. The racing forum might be a good place to ask this question too. If you can give some more details and converse with them, answering posts like you did here, I'm sure you'll get some good imput. Reading articles and books on sail trim etc is really useful too but practicing on the water is what really helps.
The roughness of the bottom is very important. If you leave yours in the water it most likely has something like Pettit Trinidad or equal - not exactly smooth. If he had bare gel coat this will give him a substantial advantage in less drag. If you both had centerboards, if his had the centerboard trunk sealed off and yours wasn't this would be a factor also. With regard to crossing tacks in front of you, I don't consider this necessarily rude so long as it's not a dangerous situation. Just because one has been sailing for a lot of years doesn't necessarily mean they are fast sailors. Have you been in races and how well have you done? Sailing a boat isn't like, say, driving a car (or power boat) where all one has to do is put the foot on the gas to go faster, it's much more complicated than that. The racing forum might be a good place to ask this question too. If you can give some more details and converse with them, answering posts like you did here, I'm sure you'll get some good imput. Reading articles and books on sail trim etc is really useful too but practicing on the water is what really helps.
G
Greg Stebbins
Hey John of Poulsbo
Weather you race or cruse is not the issue. Any time 2 boats come in sight of one another on the same course, there is a "race". We all check our trim and plan to put the lot behind us if possable.
Weather you race or cruse is not the issue. Any time 2 boats come in sight of one another on the same course, there is a "race". We all check our trim and plan to put the lot behind us if possable.
Hmmmm.....
Let's see. How is your weather helm? If you have a fair amount, the extra rudder that you have to crank in to keep the boat headed straight can actually create drag and slow you down. It also sounds like you may have had a bit too much sail up, which can cause more heel and more wetted surface. It seems to me that the C22 has a smaller hull and thus less wetted surface than the H240, so you may be getting some extra drag there too. If all these things check out, there is still one other trick you can try...VC-17. Since repainting my hull with VC last September, I have outrun C22's carrying 135 and 150 genoas in 10-15kt winds with just the 110 working jib on my H23. I have also been known to get up on the windward coaming with the tiller extension like did in my dinghy days to help keep the boat flat. Peter
Let's see. How is your weather helm? If you have a fair amount, the extra rudder that you have to crank in to keep the boat headed straight can actually create drag and slow you down. It also sounds like you may have had a bit too much sail up, which can cause more heel and more wetted surface. It seems to me that the C22 has a smaller hull and thus less wetted surface than the H240, so you may be getting some extra drag there too. If all these things check out, there is still one other trick you can try...VC-17. Since repainting my hull with VC last September, I have outrun C22's carrying 135 and 150 genoas in 10-15kt winds with just the 110 working jib on my H23. I have also been known to get up on the windward coaming with the tiller extension like did in my dinghy days to help keep the boat flat. Peter
T
Tom
G
Gary Barker
Sail Trim?
Since the majority of the power in the sail plan on the 240 is in the Main, it is easy to over trim. Just a slight amount will stall the sail and slow the boat down and cause excessive heel. "When in doubt, let it out" applies here. Ease the sail until it luffs and then trim just until it stops. Some slight luffing near the mast is OK. I have sailed a 240 past a Hunter 30 because they were over trimmed and we weren't.
Since the majority of the power in the sail plan on the 240 is in the Main, it is easy to over trim. Just a slight amount will stall the sail and slow the boat down and cause excessive heel. "When in doubt, let it out" applies here. Ease the sail until it luffs and then trim just until it stops. Some slight luffing near the mast is OK. I have sailed a 240 past a Hunter 30 because they were over trimmed and we weren't.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.