Which wood piece is stronger ? Solid or laminated ?

[rgranger]

Yup.

In this case original design was fine other than needing better sealing.


The oak would apparently meet the requirement. Based on both past history of the previous part, and the reputation of the designers of the boat.

The question isn't if solid oak is good for the job, but if the act of laminating 3 pieces together with epoxy meets the same requirement, without introducing a point of failure.


That may be obvious to you but it may not be to others.

I myself realize that with solid wood, due to factors like grain and moisture content, it can result in 2 different pieces having different stability. Anyone who has done basic woodworking knows that solid wood is prone to cupping, twisting. Whereas laminated wood can reduce that.

In this case...Having never laminated wood with epoxy before, I don't know if the resulting benefit of "balanced strength" has any drawbacks in other ways that come into play here.

If you decide to laminate...It does not have to be epoxy to be very strong. I made a joint out of Gorilla glue once... then went and whacked the piece agains a tree until it failed. The fail was not in the wood joint. So I then went and made a curved tiller by alternating four strips of differing woods. It turnd out very nice. Gorilla glue requires clamping to get a good joint but it is less toxic to work with than Epoxy. Don't get me wrong though. I think epoxy is magic stuff. I have even used JB weld on an oil pan in my truck once.

If you want a glue that is even less messy and toxic, go with Tightbond III. It has passed some rigorous testing and is great stuff if you use it correctly.

Titebond

www.titebond.com

.

 

[MikeHoncho]

If you decide to laminate...It does not have to be epoxy to be very strong. I made a joint out of Gorilla glue once... then went and whacked the piece agains a tree until it failed. The fail was not in the wood joint. So I then went and made a curved tiller by alternating four strips of differing woods. It turnd out very nice. Gorilla glue requires clamping to get a good joint but it is less toxic to work with than Epoxy. Don't get me wrong though. I think epoxy is magic stuff. I have even used JB weld on an oil pan in my truck once.

If you want a glue that is even less messy and toxic, go with Tightbond III. It has passed some rigorous testing and is great stuff if you use it correctly.

Titebond

www.titebond.com

.

Don’t use Gorilla Glue or other poly based glues. There are many woodworker based studies on strength and polys rate low. The weakness of epoxy laminate process is clamping too tight causing a dry joint. It’s actually the case with all glue types but very susceptible with epoxy. What happens is the worker doesn’t prep the materials properly for flat and square then try to remove gaps with excessive clamping force which forces the epoxy out of the joint. If I couldn’t joint (flatten) and square the glue surfaces then I’d use Titebond III for the laminate, ammonia fune it to darken then encapsulate in high quality, slow cure epoxy. No stain. If you don’t like the idea of ammonia fuming them I’d use water based dye to darken. Ammonia fuming with something this size is super easy by using a large grocery bad. I did three bed frames/head and foot boards at one time. That was fun.

 

[MikeHoncho]

If you decide to laminate...It does not have to be epoxy to be very strong. I made a joint out of Gorilla glue once... then went and whacked the piece agains a tree until it failed. The fail was not in the wood joint. So I then went and made a curved tiller by alternating four strips of differing woods. It turnd out very nice. Gorilla glue requires clamping to get a good joint but it is less toxic to work with than Epoxy. Don't get me wrong though. I think epoxy is magic stuff. I have even used JB weld on an oil pan in my truck once.

If you want a glue that is even less messy and toxic, go with Tightbond III. It has passed some rigorous testing and is great stuff if you use it correctly.

Titebond

www.titebond.com

.

Unless it’s on fire or heated significantly or eating it the toxicity isn’t real relevant with the two products. The cleaning solvent are the same and would be the biggest concern . If on fire or heated significantly the polyurethanes (gorilla glue) would be the toxicity winner. I wouldn’t eat either of them for the record. Lol

 

[All U Get]

I voted for live oak carved like an elephant.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Unless it’s on fire or heated significantly or eating it the toxicity isn’t real relevant with the two products. The cleaning solvent are the same and would be the biggest concern . If on fire or heated significantly the polyurethanes (gorilla glue) would be the toxicity winner. I wouldn’t eat either of them for the record. Lol

Epoxy is probably more toxic during the assembly process, before the epoxy is cured. Exposure to the uncured resin can lead to allergic reactions over time. Nothing that a pair of nitrile gloves can’t prevent though. Once the piece is cured and in place it should be pretty inert.

 

[MikeHoncho]

Epoxy is probably more toxic during the assembly process, before the epoxy is cured. Exposure to the uncured resin can lead to allergic reactions over time. Nothing that a pair of nitrile gloves can’t prevent though. Once the piece is cured and in place it should be pretty inert.

Wiki- Methylene Diphenyl Diisocyanate-MDI. you make a good point on sensitizing properties. I have never heard or experienced it with typical epoxies but have with polyurethanes and two part foam polyurethanes.

Toxic smoke from Lakewood fire forces evacuations

The fire was under control by 10:30 a.m. West Pierce Fire said crews were “focusing on the hazardous materials from firefighting efforts.”

www.king5.com

 

[FastOlson]

Lots of interesting information about dealing with the known problems of wood. Far far better to use a modern material like G10 fiberglass plate. To get the thickness just right, use epoxy to bond/stack several half inch plates to get the buildup that you need. This is common for rebuilding mast step plates, whether cabin top or bilge.
As the captain of the Red October was informed in the closing scenes: "Welcome to the new world!"

 

[dLj]

Far far better to use a modern material like G10 fiberglass plate.

If you laminate wood (In this case white oak is excellent, as would be locust, hickory, some others) and fully encapsulate with epoxy, you are essentially creating a modern material.

I'd add into this discussion that I feel the laminated wood option is actually better than a solid wood option. Although using the correct wood and doing epoxy encapsulation, you will likely not live long enough to notice a difference.

dj

 

[heritage]

Black locust. It's rot resistant and hard as nails. It was actually used in lieu of nails in old wooden boats.