Which size dock line?

[Ward H]

Two reasons to not do this (besides it's like a "newbie sticker" or a former mobo guy like weinie said)

1. Most suggest leaving your dock lines at the dock so they are the right length all the time, hard to do this way

2. If you have to get out of Dodge quick, quick, quick, it's a PITA to remove them

Stu, 1. That's exactly what I do. The way I do the loop doesn't prevent that.
2. Went back and looked at your link again. I missed how he put the 1/8 line through the 3-strand and always tied the loop to the cleat. That looks like a good solution. (and keeps me from looking like a newbie mobo'er )

 

[Ron20324]

...Is this acceptable practice?

Ward, with few exceptions, "acceptable practice" is what works for YOUR boat. It only has to be "acceptable" to YOU. As you can see, there are many opinions posted here. Do it one way, then observe how it handles the situations that arise. Make changes if necessary until you find the best solution for your dock and your boat.

If putting an eye over the cleat, make it only marginally larger than the cleat to reduce chances of it coming off accidently.

 

[Joe]

SailingHarry, I agree. The photo was just to show how I looped the line. In my rather long beginning post I mentioned how I saw first hand how much more stretch 3-strand had than the nylon double braid of the same size. That convinced me to switch to 3-strand this year.

weinie, I've tried just looping them over the deck cleat but the angles appear to be wrong to ensure a slack loop doesn't pop off one of the horns. That close up photo is at a different location than my slip.

I appreciate all the advice and comments.

FWIW, I have used 1/2 and 5/8 .... I like the 1/2 better on my 27. My chafe protection is a 5/8 or 3/4 in garden hose.... The hose will get stiff over time.... but it's very inexpensive to replace. Also I have similar cleat set up on my boat, the bow line will rub the edge and it's hard to keep chafe protection in place there... If you notice a lot.. I would spend the money and get the leather lace on sleeve, maybe even lock stitch it in place. On the stern lines my 1 inch genoa track is a source for serious chafe, so I split a one foot lengths of garden hose length wise and "capped" the track under the line.

The loop over hasn't popped off, mine never have in 15 years... the lines flex with the boat as it bobs and yaws.... but chafe is the big issue. The geometry of the properly sized loop requires that it be turned sideways, then pushed forward (or pulled backward) to lift the loop off one horn then the other. ... Tension on the line keeps the loop long and narrow. Correctly sized eye splices will have the eye diameter a little less than the horn cleat's total length... the only way they will come off is if you lift one side, then the other, like a bone button. But, if you can't get over the insecurity of simply looping them... a short piece of small stuff through the eye with a shoelace bow will work

I don't like braided docklines... I prefer to purchase a coil of 3 strand nylon and build my own ... the three strand eye slice is perhaps the easiest of all the splices.... you can do it with a large Phillips head screwdriver. No tool needed... and a bit of whipping twine. Seal the cut ends with a hot knife, mini-torch, match, lighter etc...

 

[Chris Patterson]

Right, wrong, or otherwise; when you lay down at night, how do YOU feel about your tie?
I've never seen a 'wrong' way..

 

[Stu Jackson]

Stu, I thought the open based horn cleat was open for that reason. I currently twist the loop in such a way that the working line locks down the crossover loop. Will try to get a pic this weekend to see if it is appropriate way to do so. To save $$$ I was planning on buying a length of line and cutting custom lengths and splicing in the eyes myself. Your suggestion to use a cleat hitch instead of a spliced eye on the boat cleat sounds easier. At least that is what I think you suggested. I may still do the eye splice so I have a loop to grab with the boat hook and do the cleat hitch beyond the eye.

Ron's and Joe's advice about sizing the loop is very important. Too big and you'd need the small "safety" line at the cleat, described in my link.

Yes, cleat hitch is what I meant, sorry about that.

The boat hook doesn't need a loop to grab. In fact, what I do is to use the end, not the hook, of the boat hook, to slide the line off the edge of the dock, then use the hook to pick up the line along the length of the line, rarely at the loop.

You don't actually need a loop to grab the line with a boat hook. A small figure 8 at the end would work, too.

 

[rgranger]

Consider snubbers on your dock lines to reduce the shock.

If you have any old bumpers laying in your shed, those can make a nice snubber. Run the line in one hole, wrap it around once and out the other hole. The line squeezes the bumper during a surge and takes some of the shock stress out.

 

[Gunni]

I would want mid-ship cleats on that boat, and springlines fore and aft. Your bow and stern cleats are overworked in that kind of exposed location. Make those mid-ship cleats big, beefy, and backed (with a backing plate).

Sounds like you also need to work on your anti-chafe strategy.

 

[shemandr]

A new slip?
Is that open to the East? That would put you on the mainland side of Barnegat Bay with a fetch of more than a mile?
I think the shock loads are the danger. Chafe protection and snubbers are in order. I personally like 3 strand for it's stretching. But you know there are those who don't Rx 3 strand because of the heat buildup in nylon in that situation and actual melting of the fibers. In a storm maybe the rain mitigates that but at your slip your going to have loading every afternoon there is a sea breeze. I like your system of using 3 strand nylon to cushion the shock loading of another set of dacron lines. Maybe it's a bit more complicated to depart and return, but it would seem to smooth out the onboard experience at the dock. I've yet to see nylon lines melt in any situation I've had experience with. But when tying up my keelboats at my slip, which is open to the SE, I want the dacron to keep my boat off the bulkhead (To prevent MS's dreaded "Dock Bite").

 

[Hunt]

Ward - I am also at Mariners. Catalina 34 (Independence) will be launched this Saturday. Although I am in the lagoon, I have a couple of friends who are out by you. Take a look at Monarch (Newport 28). He is also on one of the docks out front and has a lot of experience with bad weather. Doesn't hurt to double up on your lines especially when expecting bad weather. My feeling is the biggest your cleats can handle is best. The way you are using your cleat, it appears to be pulling on the top of the cleat rather than on the base. May cause extra stress on the cleat bolts. Much better to have the pull from the base of the cleat.
On most weekends, there are a bunch of us in the clubhouse. Come on in - we'd be happy to help you.

 

[Ward H]

Hi Hunt, Welcome to the forum.
I think we have talked once or twice. I'm slipped right next to Mike and now Dick is across from us. They have been a big help getting me settled in and do watch my lines for me.
Good point on pulling the cleats from the bottom instead of the top like I've been doing.

Andrew, The sea breeze chop action seems to get broken up by some mud flats but the NE wind appears to be what churns things up a bit at our dock. That and the power boats coming out of Double Creek. I try to watch my slip neighbors and when they double up lines so do I. I may just go ahead and make it a regular practice to double up.

My take away from all these much appreciated suggestions is this:
I'll go with enough length of 1/2" nylon 3-strand to cut my lines to length and splice in eyes of the size needed for my cleats. Then I will just drop the eyes on the cleats and if needed tie line to the cleat.
I'll add chafe protection and use the better of the remaining lines to double up, which I will make a regular practice since it is hard to get to the boat quickly if a storm pops up.

 

[gettinthere]

As big as is practical.

Too big and you cant tie 2 lines to one cleat, maybe not even one line to a cleat.
But as big as possible and bigger than recommended if possible means that as the line wears from chafe or UV degradation it will still be capable of doing its job.
So upsize from the published recommendations if at all possible for longevity.

 

[dparilla]

Bigger is not always better though. The bigger the line, the greater the strength, but the lower the stretch. You want to be sure your lines have some ability to stretch and absorb the shock loads that can be exerted on you cleat (and boat, and dock.) Snubbers help add resiliency to the larger lines, as can doubling up a smaller line (held taut) with a larger line slack. I use 1/2 lines for my usual tie up, and then have 5/8 lines that are used in storm scenarios. I use a snubber on my bow and stern to absorb the side to side motion, and chafe wraps (garden hose with Velcro wraps) on any line that crosses a hard point.